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Old 09-27-2007, 06:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Union Labor Work Ethics

How many of you guys are members of a union work force? I have been in PA for the last 3 weeks working in a union shop as a consultant on an installation of a machine at one of our shops. We are all one company but I am from South Carolina. It seems to me that our work ethics are totally different.

In our shop in SC.

1.We bust our *** to make sure we make ship dates on projects.
2.We take pride in our work and try to make the next weld look better than the last.
3. If we are getting close to a ship date we work 10-12-14 hours to make sure it is on the truck for shipment.


After consulting (because it is a dispute in there contract if I work) I have found.

1.They could give a crap less if its on time
2.They could give a crap less what there stuff looks like.
3.They only work 8 hours a day no matter what has to ship.


Am I missing something or is the union shops just a cover up for lazy people to keep there jobs as long as the place is open?


I am in no way bashing anyone here if they are in a union. I am only talking about what I have seen in three weeks at this particular shop in Erie PA.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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:lol: A real union would of placed some kind of guarantees and bonuses if the products rolled out on time.

Sounds like neither party has an interest in this being done on time/early. Just $$$ rolling to everyone so everyone is happy without paying OT. No company likes paying OT unless there was something in it for them...
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah... it's that particular union...

I've been a Union Refrigeration Pipefitter/ Service Technician now for over 10 years.... We work as hard as any other American... I've had my share of 6 day weeks with 25+ hours OT...

I think the building construction trades are geared a little different.. We tend to follow how hard the people running the job want to go... They want OT no problem, they're paying us for services...

I'm not 100% Joe Union guy.... they have their pro's and con's like any other group... I think the traditions are good in the sense of schooling and training the younger folk to be hard working productive people... Someone has to construct all the new fancy buildings

Like this recent UAW strike.... It was weird.. Political muscle flexing and it didn't do them much good.... I think GM was on the better half of what the outcome was... They were going for some job security, which in this current market for them isn't looking good...

The big problem now with the unions as a whole is we are pricing ourselves out of the market... They keep asking for so much in our contracts that the contractors can't make their profit margins... Hence the job goes non-union and they save alot of building cost... At this pace I think their demise is inevitable....

I could keep rambling for awhile but I'll stop here... It's still a good living...
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Exactly , the union workers arent the ones that set the work hours , thats managements fault. I guarantee that union workers , at least the ones I'm involved with , take great pride in their work. Its the open shops that slop crap together in ways that would scare the crap out of you.

There are A LOT of stereotypes with union labor that simply arent true. No union shop is going to keep a lazy worker if they hold up a job. The union doesnt control "just cause" firings. It will step in if one of the hands is getting railroaded for something , but there are usually justifiable firing clauses in any of the contracts.

Unions dont work like what you see on the Sapranos.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The big problem now with the unions as a whole is we are pricing ourselves out of the market... They keep asking for so much in our contracts that the contractors can't make their profit margins... Hence the job goes non-union and they save alot of building cost... At this pace I think their demise is inevitable....
Im not union, but I agree. The time for unions is over IMHO. In my Grandfathers day the Union was the way to go (he was secritary of the LA buiding trades at one time and worked his way up to get there) My Dad was never union, but siad the union has always helped him because his work kept the wages above union to keep them out. I am not union, and likely will never be, I see them as overpricing themselves right out of the market. Esspecialy with the older crowd as it seems there is a split between those that still work there tail off and those that do even less now and want more pay, and the younger crowd wanting to sit around and "manage" all while being paid top dollar for doing nothing (cant blame them however as teachers have been pumping the "go to college to make more money" BS into the head for years)
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I was in a Union, pretty much, it's a gimmick to get higher pay for less work, not that I mind it, but that's pretty much the gist of it, and also, makes us nearly impossible to be fired unless you mess up real bad, like dead person bad. Other then that, it's okay to be lazy and irresponsible!
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thats one thing that I can't figure out. They have a bonus plan in place to pay every quarter. We get anywhere from 500.00-1500.00 every quarter. They get 50 bucks sometimes. But they just want to sit around and bitch about how they are treated unfair about there bouses because it is set up on a site basis.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I was in a Union, pretty much, it's a gimmick to get higher pay for less work,
A Labor union is SO much more than a gimmick.

Sure you find lazy slobs in every facit of society , but they are in the minority.
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ithe younger crowd wanting to sit around and "manage" all while being paid top dollar for doing nothing (cant blame them however as teachers have been pumping the "go to college to make more money" BS into the head for years)
Not all of the "younger crowd are like that" just so you know. I have to let students who don't give a crap and don't want to work help build the sets I work on so they can get lab hours for their class.

It's like having a police officer say that some kid is going to come by and performance tune your hot rod with a dremel and spray paint for a shop class project and you don't have any say in the matter.

I hate working with people who take no pride in their work and don't care to be there in the first place. And I'm only 21...
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Old 09-27-2007, 08:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Any of you union guys been told to "Calm down there son, you're making us look bad," when you work "too hard"?

I have.

Anyone seen a COUCH IN THE FACTORY FLOOR for the union guys whose only job it is to change the rollers on a machine once ever 30 minutes? (I guess that actually just standing there for 29 minutes at a time is too hard)

I have.

Anyone visited their cousin in the "Job Pool" where the workers go for 10 hours a day to do nothing AND STILL GET PAID when there isn't enough work to keep the factory running?

I have.

Anyone had a wrongful firing suit brought against them for catching someone red handed not only in clear violation of company policy, but also in the commission of a crime? Anyone had enough evidence for a conviction, but STILL had to wade though 90 days of "binding resolution" where you STILL had to pay the person that you fired?

I have.

From my personal experiences throughout my lifetime I've only seen unions that existed to perpetuate themselves, and to protect the worker from the consequences of their lack of labor.

I'm pretty sure that our "need" for unions went away a LONG time ago. My personal experience has been only negative with unions. Go ask an Oldsmobile employee how their final contract worked out. I think the only thing that unions are good for is themselves.
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