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Old 01-21-2016, 05:30 PM   #331 (permalink)
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I totally get initial, angry posts. But, to be honest, you haven't changed tact. You've cheered about TechPb going down. You still claim that the site is a scam* (even though he's posted and vlogged to admit that he owes product, and has demonstrated that he's taking steps to resolve this issue) and you cheer when others post inaccurate, negative statements about him.

* Definition of "scam":
1. a dishonest scheme; a fraud**
** Definition of "fraud":

1 a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right
b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick
Has he ever said that he doesn't owe products? Has he ever said he won't get the products owed to those he owes them to? Can you prove that he sold you those bid packs so you could bid on items and win and that he intended to never give those products out? Can you prove that he lied about the reasons for delaying shipping. Note: Even if he initially said an item is out of stock that doesn't mean a lie. For example, based on the evidence presented so far, it's still possible that it was out of stock and before it came back in stock, this whole PayPal debacle started for him.

I also find it incredulous that you had 'no idea this was going to blow up':
1. You've admitted to being a PBN user prior to this (and thus there is a fair chance you knew who he was and how he related to PBN).
2. You've admitted that you created the ryanwilliams 'persona' because you 'knew he was aggressive, vindictive, and likes to sue' so, that confirms you knew quite a bit about him, and his relationship with PBN before you even posted the first 'ryanwilliams' post over there.
3. You gave the thread a sensational title rather than a literal, factional one: (i.e. "Paintball Auction Site Not Shipping Products to 24 winners").



I seem to have missed that part where he says Markerbids last year was a scam (see definition above). Can you point out the specific time where he made this claim?

You're interpretation of fraud being 'selling products you do not have' is narrow and incorrect. Let me give you an example of why:

I recently went to an audio / video specialty store (AV Science) and ordered and paid for a Stewart Filmscreen motorized projection screen. Stewart Filmscreen doesn't sell direct to consumers. The store never, ever, had that screen (or any Stewart Filmscreen products) in their inventory. They simply turned my information (and the majority of what I paid, keeping the remaining as the store's revenue) over to Stewart Filmscreen. Stewart Filmscreen made my screen to order and shipped it to me. Under your narrow and incorrect interpretation, the audio video store committed fraud because they sold something that they clearly did not have in their possession. Guess what- this happens all over the internet, the phone, and even mail order. It is not fraud.

Check the definition above about Fraud. To claim fraud you need to show proof of his intent or, evidence of his intentional misleading with the goal of never delivering the products.

While these folks who are owed products clearly have not had straightforward transactions, The fact that he is publicly saying he owes products and, is publicly taking steps to resolve the problem (selling his personal property), shows that his intent now, is clearly not fraudulent. However, we need some sort of evidence that shows what his intent was before he started posting publicly about it before we can jump to conclusions about what he was, or wasn't doing.
Your own definition of fraud. He knowingly sold product he did not have, that is fraud. He intentionally held an auction for items he did not posses, that is fraud. He has with held from full filling an item he sold and has not offered to refund all of the funds used to bid on product that legally did not exist.
It doesn't matter if he eventually intends to full fill those orders, he took money for items that did not exist. He committed multiple acts of fraud. It is plain and simple.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:41 PM   #332 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter if he eventually intends to full fill those orders, he took money for items that did not exist. He committed multiple acts of fraud. It is plain and simple.
Yes, but does that make all dropshippers frauds?
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:48 PM   #333 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:02 PM   #334 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:25 PM   #335 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:52 PM   #336 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:56 PM   #337 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:02 PM   #338 (permalink)
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Yes, but does that make all dropshippers frauds?
You beat me to it. I was going to ask this exact question. This part of it is not by any means a NEW or unusual business model.
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:02 PM   #339 (permalink)
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:07 PM   #340 (permalink)
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