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Old 10-03-2017, 11:20 PM   #41 (permalink)
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too soon for humor?
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Never too soon for humour. Gilbert Gottfried got a raw deal! Humour is what lets some of us get through what we shouldn't. Bored383 and JellyGhost, thank you... some semblance of order from a f**ked up situation. Nililisterine! F'n eh!
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:31 AM   #43 (permalink)
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As a first responder, I commend all those who acted swiftly and professionally to mitigate the harm and danger of this situation, and advise them to talk to someone when time allows. You will need to decompress after this.

As an intelligence gatherer, this headline exhausts me because I see it too often, though obviously not at these numbers.

Hope all are healing well and wish safety and serenity for those effected and their families.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:14 AM   #44 (permalink)
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if there is any other purpose for a bumpfire stock, im all ears..
No, there isnt. But the problem is just about any semi-auto can be made to bump-fire without any attachments at all. Its just a matter of technique. But its worthless since accuracy is totally gone.

Modern bump stocks evolved from the old "Hellfire" and "Triburst" kits of the 80s/90s. The main advantage of the new types is they have become more accurate. That said, I know the ATF have pulled some off the market before because they cross the line.

Which, the fact that the ATF has a "line" for what is legal tells me that they will end up getting lots of attention.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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No, there isnt. But the problem is just about any semi-auto can be made to bump-fire without any attachments at all. Its just a matter of technique. But its worthless since accuracy is totally gone.

Modern bump stocks evolved from the old "Hellfire" and "Triburst" kits of the 80s/90s. The main advantage of the new types is they have become more accurate. That said, I know the ATF have pulled some off the market before because they cross the line.

Which, the fact that the ATF has a "line" for what is legal tells me that they will end up getting lots of attention.
It was a very similar shooting that banned hellfire triggers. Another crazy person with a nonsensical motive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_...treet_shooting

Death count wasn't as high but just like now there was a pretty steady stream of crazy people shooting up places in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000's. Each one learns from the previous how to get deadlier. The media practically publishes the blueprint on what to do.

Unfortunately nothing can be changed to prevent these attacks short of presidential level security details at public events. Which with the amount of money we pay for national defense doesn't seem like a bad option at this point.

Aren't private citizens lives as valuable?
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:49 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I think some of these shootings could be understood as suicides. Someone decides they hate the world and their own life. They resolve to kill themselves and bite the world at the same time.
They may be on the rise because society is not reinforcing a reason to live. Relgion used to play that role, and it still does for some. Nihilism is something that many people just accept, and some accept it and come to the suicide conclusion.
I think in general we aren't teaching kids to respect other lives enough. I have struggled with depression, but throughout have always thought others lives were important, even moreso than my own. Now that can be seen as good or bad, but probably is why I continue in service orietnted careers even though I'm not the biggest fan of people in general - I just respect them.

I think that respect has been lost in general, not just in mentally ill /depressed / etc folk.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:44 PM   #47 (permalink)
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society is not reinforcing a reason to live.
Yep a lot of decent people are checking out of society because they feel they can't find a good partner worth working hard for/with and they don't want their children to live in such a society.

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I think in general we aren't teaching kids to respect other lives enough.
That whole rigmarole has somewhat to do with the State taking the role of family and community.

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have always thought others lives were important, even moreso than my own. Now that can be seen as good or bad
I would say mostly bad. Don't end up like the giving tree or that other story where somebody gave away all their body parts until they were left with just their skull.
Something something filleth your cup before you filleth your neighbor's. Practice tough love. Spare the rod spoil the child. Etc etc.
I really hate seeing people waste so much energy and money helping others that gets them nowhere.
IE some guy bought over $1000 worth of pizzas to feed the homeless for one meal, but it practically ended up being a pizza party for strangers on the street; although no one wanted to admit it.
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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First and foremost, I'm very proud to be an American as I've come across reports of the first responders and, the stories of the victims (NPR has been making a point of spending some time each day talking about the victims, who they were, who they left behind, etc). I really, really don't think the name of the murderer should be mentioned anymore.

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I think in general we aren't teaching kids to respect other lives enough. I have struggled with depression, but throughout have always thought others lives were important, even moreso than my own. Now that can be seen as good or bad, but probably is why I continue in service orietnted careers even though I'm not the biggest fan of people in general - I just respect them.

I think that respect has been lost in general, not just in mentally ill /depressed / etc folk.
Actually, I'd argue that given that the actual incidence of violent crime has decreased over the years, I'd say that society is actually more respectful of life than it has been. The media ('mainstream' or otherwise) certainly don't try to make us feel that this is the case though, even before this incident.

Moving beyond the particulars of this incident though, the biggest problem we Americans face in my opinion is the lack of nuance. Our talking heads, media and a lot of common conversations fail to account or acknowledge that any one topic (i.e. gun violence, mental health, privacy rights, law enforcement, racism, poverty) has many different facets and that just addressing one of them won't significantly change the problem at hand, and may even make the problem worse. This lack of nuance is already evident for this event which is not even a week old, and neither we or the authorities don't have all the relevant information. I'm sure that there our groups (i.e. Russians) pushing misinformation to further their own agenda of dividing popular opinions and, the lack of nuance makes this easier.

On a different note, I won't get into the whole bump stock thing but, there's a parallel in the paintball world: the double finger trigger. It was specifically designed to allow one to fire faster than the semi-auto rule would otherwise allow. I personally don't have a problem with rates of fire faster than 6+ BPS (now that we are required to wear full face-masks unlike when the rule was written) but rather the false sense of security that the semi-auto only rule now provides new players, field operators and others, in light of their existence and popularity. On the other hand, I'm sure that there are folks who honestly feel that we should all be playing stock-class.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:15 PM   #49 (permalink)
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On a different note, I won't get into the whole bump stock thing but, there's a parallel in the paintball world: the double finger trigger.
I'm going to say this comparison is poor when there is a much better, more analogous option. That being trigger bounce. When you mess with the debounce settings of an E-Mag, you get what is basically sustained full auto.

Otherwise, great post!
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:22 PM   #50 (permalink)
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It was a very similar shooting that banned hellfire triggers. Another crazy person with a nonsensical motive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_...treet_shooting

Unfortunately nothing can be changed to prevent these attacks short of presidential level security details at public events. Which with the amount of money we pay for national defense doesn't seem like a bad option at this point.

Aren't private citizens lives as valuable?
You may find this to be an interesting read...
https://mises.org/blog/after-vegas-s...rity-seriously
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