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Old 01-11-2018, 11:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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here is the skinny - no one is arguing the sherman was superior in anything but numbers, reliability, and repair-ability (that is really important) what will be argued is that there are an inordinate number of unfair and dishonest myths about the sherman

it was a very good general purpose tank, designed primarily for infantry support. It was used in combat in whatever role it found itself stuck in. in service they were reliable - probably the most reliable tank of the war. and they were repairable. Want to replace the transmission on a sherman? it unbolts from the front of the tank . . . want to replace the transmission on a panther or tiger? step 1 is remove the turret . . . .

see a problem already? oh - and the transmission in the sherman was not overburdened like in those big german tanks. the weight of those big german tanks stressed their drivetrains.

want to transport a sherman? stick it on a train, or on the back of a transporter. want to transport a tiger? replace the tracks with the narrow gauge ones is the first step to hauling it by train . . . that means removing and stowing a significant number of the road wheels.

speaking of road wheels and suspension - a damaged roadwheel on a tiger might require you to remove multiple to get to it. sherman has a bad wheel on a bogey? unbolt the bogey as a unit and replace. most maintenance on the sherman was far simpler - they were able to be repaired and returned to action far quicker. this enhanced the effect of their numbers

as for catching on fire - both US and german tanks, and many brit tanks, were gas fueled. the russians loved diesel. so catching on fire because of gas was an issue for all . . . but was worse was having stored ammo catch fire - and the sherman was modified during the war to have wet stowage to seriously mitigate this. The article I linked from the soviet service of the sherman, the author says that the t34's (often held up as the best tank...) were far worse for cooking up than the shermans. fire was something all the tanks had to worry about, plain and simple.

escapable. that "guy"* I linked the youtube video from, he has a whole series of vids where he goes in and around ww2 tanks. one of his schticks is showing how easy - or hard - they are to get out of. guess what tank was easy to escape from? the sherman. crew fatalities were reduced because of this. in fact crew survivability is one of the things that the deep diving number crunchers can prove . . . down to even how US crews had less injuries and fatalities in shermans than the brits because US doctrine was the crew wore helmets and brit doctrine was the crew wore berets

armor - the frontal slope of the shermans armor was very effective. the quality of the metal was also very good. again to the first link - that soviet tanker said shermans would take hits and not spall, the russians tanks would. spalling is when a tank is hit and not penetrated, but the armor on the inside is shattered loose and become shrapnel. this is bad for the crew. the german tanks suffered from brittle armor as the war wore on - they were known to shatter from hits.

cliff notes - the sherman was not the horrible nightmare the myths say it is. it was a competent vehicle that performed well.

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Old 01-11-2018, 11:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Lol, I concede, and then you beat me with a stick.

Seriously, great job of making your point. +1 interweb.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Not trying to beat you with a stick - just sharing info is all

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I agree with Don.
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don is on the path to everlasting coolness
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I am enjoying the read, thank you for sharing.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Were you 19k Bored?
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:15 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Were you 19k Bored?
I never served, and too claustrophobic for that mos anyway
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I agree with Don.
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don is on the path to everlasting coolness
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:48 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I never served, and too claustrophobic for that mos anyway
Ah. I was 19k from 2001-2003 and most of my tanker buddies have a book collection similar to yours so I figured you may have been in Armor.

Good read and interesting perspective. No matter that rumors, myths, or opinions, we can be sure that the crews in those Shermans loved them as they became their home. Crews in those close quarters become brothers, and I'm still close to the guys I served with 15 years ago.

Best job I ever had.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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From what I understand, the Panther's smaller 75mm gun actually had better penetrating ability at close range then the infamous 88 on the Tiger. Obviously the weight of the 88mm round gave better performance at range.

IMO, the Germans made a huge mistake creating the Tiger, the Panther was nearly as capable, could go more places, far more reliable and much easily to produce in quantity.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Manning - check out the cheiftain's hatch vids on youtube. Nicholas Moran was an Abrams commander in the 2nd gulf war, brings a lot of his experiences serving in combat to his reviews of older tanks. He is also the speaker in the first youtube vid I linked. I think he is a pretty good amateur historian

If anyone wants a good read about the Tiger tank then I recommend 'tigers in the mud' by otto carius. its a good read not just for the tiger tank, but for details on the eastern front

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...ers_In_The_Mud
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I agree with Don.
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Originally Posted by stimpy
don is on the path to everlasting coolness
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OMG boobs, beers and Chad Thompson. Nothing could be better.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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American military tank doctrine was very different than German. Helped us out a lot.
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