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Old 11-13-2017, 09:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Don't go to college unless you can pay cash (har har) or if a scholarship will pay for ALL of it and the stipend will be enough to pay for your textbooks

And then try to work part time during college (good luck with homework) unless you're still living at home

If this is not doable, then you've got Youtube to watch educational stuff and learn about stuff you and the marketplace cares about, and there's PDFs all over the web to teach you history / alt-history --

Some big-business entry level cheapo-paying jobs can help pay for your tuition in select fields, because they like the turnover

This is just a stream-of-consciousness post that veers away from the subject matter
Point is don't let your friends and family get ripped off

The world is changing for the worse and it begins in the way people are being educated, they are being taught to detach themselves from what is going on by ADHD lecturers who will give you an A if you laugh at their in-class jokes (but you have to be "smart" to catch the jokes), who jump from one thing to the next and that is why the students don't retain anything or anything useful and end up at McDonalds (not like many of them had a choice in the matter)

The textbooks are filled with hundreds of pages of gibberish and loose interpretations that do not align with reality

Last edited by Pittsburgh Stinkbugs; 11-13-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I wasted a great deal of money and time attending the University of Northern Iowa after high school. (98-01) I fell into the trap of "study something you have interest in" so I changed my major from marketing to political science. Then after a couple of years getting gen-eds and the 100 level stuff out of the way I started to encounter the indoctrination classes. Marxism was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
I dropped out right before my 4th year at UNI and looking back on that mess with friends who graduated with different bachelor degrees in areas like economics and history, we pretty much all agree there was a medium to heavy leftist socialist bent to each program. For instance my econ grad friend said Keynesian Econ was required reading but nothing by Hayek, Mises or Rothbard, and if those authors were mentioned it was a way to get you put down by the professors. Anyway, back to topic...

I moved to Des Moines and started working at my current employer in 2004. Eventually I felt like I needed to complete my bachelor's degree in order to break into the higher pay bands. So I took the credits that would transfer and started at Upper Iowa University in 2008. I took light loads of night classes and by 2010 I had completed a bachelors in public administration, and all the tuition and half of the text books cost for this degree were paid for by my employer.

Then around 2013 a very good friend of mine from work began to mentor me and encouraged me to get my certification in databases from Des Moines Area Community College. This certificate has been 100x more valuable to my employer than any of the other college I'd taken.
The trick is that DMACC didn't want me to work on a certificate. They push students hard to get the full Business Information Systems degree, and they'll tell them how they'll be screwed in the job market competing against people with a BIS if they've only got a certificate. This didn't matter to me since I was already employed, but I let them put BIS down as my major just to get them to shut up. So I stayed focused on the classes that I'd need for the certificate and completed it in a couple of years, again not taking a big load of credits just taking my time to ace everything. Then when I had what I needed I just did the graduation application for the certificate and they couldn't say no. Right after completing this Database Specialist Certificate I moved to a new position in my company and jumped two pay bands, and again all the tuition and half of the text book cost were paid for by my company.

Just this month I finally finished paying off the student loan debt that I took on from attending the University of Northern Iowa. It feels great having that mistake finally dead and buried.


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Old 11-13-2017, 12:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I see both sides of the fence on this one. I went to college right out of high school for Criminal Justice. At 24 I got a job with a small, local police department where a degree and a $1.25 would get you a cup of coffee. Even most of the upper echelon didn't have degrees. Moved to a much larger department where attaining ranks such as lieutenant and above required a degree and having one meant a high pay to start as well as attaining the first rank above patrolman (Advanced Patrolman) took only two years instead of four.

Things happen in life (as they do) and I stepped away from that. Decided to go back to school (art school this time) and majored in Digital Photography with a specialization in forensics. Now I work in the private sector and the only way I got the job was because of both of my skill sets. Sure, I didn't need a degree to become a police officer and it's the experience in that field, not the degree, that got me the job I have now. However, no amount of youtube videos or PDFs would have given me the knowledge and experience in photography that school did, which also played into me landing this rather lucrative job.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'll just send em to Harvard and they can major in Lesbian Interpretive Dance Theory for all I care
Idk, I dodged that bullet with my daughter at a liberal arts college. She teetered over into biology. That was a little iffy on the marketability by itself, especially for the price. Now she has tested into law school, with an interest in environmental law. There's a decent market for that around here, on either side of the fence. Much better market value than LIDT; I'll go for the upgrade.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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but most companies don't actually give a damn what that degree is in or with which institution you got that degree.
This is very subjective, depending on the career. It's usually pretty obvious what would want a specific degree; law, medical, engineering, etc. I wouldn't be able to get into the field I'm pursuing (architecture) with some chintzy Liberal Arts degree.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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It really depends on the degree you're pursuing. For example, my daughter is about to head off to Juniata College next fall to study medicine. After speaking with other doctors, going somewhere like community college to start your undergrad is a really bad idea. You really need to get into a school that will not only prepare you to pass your MCAT, but also have the pedigree to help you get into a good medical school. Getting into med school is competitive enough as it is. You really need every advantage you can get. To top it all off, even with a $100,000 scholarship (which is still pretty damn impressive), the total cost of her undergrad is going to be $108,000 before any other financial aid. If she were going to college to study art, literature or some other field, I wouldn't be anywhere near as comfortable incurring this much debt. But in the case of medicine, at least they pull in enough money to warrant the expense.
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Update:

Colleges are starting to look at new funding options.
A couple that have come to my attention are "Income share" agreements such as Vemo Education – Aligning value and student success in higher education and a kind of business take on the model that the military uses with ROTC scholarships.

This in theory would look something like employers and educational institutions working together to develop a plan to ensure students graduate with the skills and knowledge that the company wants it's employees to have. This is meant to be good for everyone in that the company would invest in the resources that the college needs to provide that training, and possibly scholarships to the college if it produces the employees at a quality they promise. The students get a greater likely hood of employment in the field they want to work in and the company gets the workers with the skills it wants up front instead of having to pay them to go to school after hire for those skills.
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am an engineer. The degree was pricey, but paid for itself quickly, with two years of entry level suck followed by the ability to leverage my degree and track record for some serious raises. I broke even (compared to a 2-yr) within 4 years, despite working at really small companies.

That said, engineering is both theory based, requiring a solid education, and in high demand. And there's the age - old debate, was it the degree, or does the degree just filter the workforce into those willing to put in the time?

Most of my real knowledge is on the job, but the foundation lets me know where to search.

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Old 04-02-2018, 05:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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If SUNY is offering free tuition...go for it.

Whether college is worth it or not depends on your degree, as others have said. I'm a software engineer. You need a 4 year degree to do what I do. And it is a good investment.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The college hate is way overblown. I for one got a well rounded education for a reasonable cost. Yes, there are plenty of good careers that require alternative education, and yes there are many ways to make a good career without higher education, but there are plenty of careers that do require the degree and many more companies that won't even look at you without one, right or wrong. And finally there are plenty of institutions that still offer a good program at reasonable prices.

If you can't make the $800/month student loans for your Masters in Critical Social Theory from Private Ivy U that doesn't mean the system is broken, it means you made poor life choices
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