mcarterbrown.com  

New To The Sport Just started playing? Been playing for a while, but you have a question you should have asked years ago? Drop a line, we answer

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-25-2008, 12:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Walking_Target's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ON, Canada

i actually keep a very short wrench in my gearbag to unscrew any tank that is proving to be difficult in comming out of the ASA...

much better than forcing it.
__________________


Walking_Target is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 12:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
Stock Class Aficionado
 
idkfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

CCM Fan
With modern tanks (those designed with the vents), I cannot see why loctite would be used at all. You can either:

- Not loctite the threads, the tank may unscrew, you could vent the tank.
- Loctite the threads, you may or may not clog the vent, you may or may not create a rocket.

It seems even IF the tank can unscrew when you properly torque it using no loctite, the end consequences are much worse if you actually do use loctite. Not speaking of older tanks though...
__________________

Last edited by idkfa; 03-25-2008 at 01:09 PM.
idkfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
Sh*t, I'm a mod?
 
Azzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Finleyville, PA

Fan of EMR
Brass and Wood Fan
Its going to take more than just casual "bumping" force to unscrew a tank with 800+PSI on the threads.

I have seen a tank go flying once, it was one of mine with a sherader valve. Leaky valve, left the tank to leak empty, and came back to it after a little bit. It had stopped, i thought it had leaked all the pressure out. Even tapped the stem to see if there was any air left. Nothing. Started to pull the stem out... and fwoosh! Stem went into the ground, and the tank went into the hillside behind me. Only flew about 10 feet, but put istelf into about 3" of frozen ground. Madcat had a good view of the whole thing, and could probably recount that better.

Must of had some clog, but it didnt leak after I found the stem and got it back together.
__________________
Riverside Renegade Paintball / C.C. S.V.S. Plankowner - LPPC#6
TeamADW.com - Maker of Jeep ThingsOld Timer Feedback
Azzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
HP_Lovecraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Maine

I would not use any valve that has a "venting channel".
The few that I have seen have been BADLY carved with a grinder and are clearly unsafe. They also render anti-siphons, and siphons useless.

According to Catalina, tank valves should not be threadlocked. Threadlocking at 20lbs is the same as not threadlocking at 45lbs. The only difference is that threadlocking can ruin the threads, and render the safety vent useless.

The irony is that threadlocking the valve makes it MORE likely to be a deadly rocket, as seen with the sad story 3 years ago of the lady that was killed by a threadlocked co2 tank. (The loctite had clogged the safety vent). They used NPS and discovered that

NPS was using loctite for the simple reason that it meant they didn't need to properly torque the valves. Often just handtightening!

IMO, you should follow manafacturer specs, and not threadlock. But properly torque to 45lbs, and avoid valves with "channels".

nick
__________________
www.montneel.com

"the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
HP_Lovecraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:08 PM   #25 (permalink)
Stock Class Aficionado
 
idkfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

CCM Fan
Yikes! I have seen a valve with a channel cut into it. And this was a new tank bought online!

Here is some more information, with Glenn Palmer apparently being interviewed:

WARPIG - World And Regional Paintball Information Guide
__________________
idkfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
Old, Slow and Angry
 
MadCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Send a message via Skype™ to MadCat

Fan of EMR
PPS Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
Its going to take more than just casual "bumping" force to unscrew a tank with 800+PSI on the threads.

I have seen a tank go flying once, it was one of mine with a sherader valve. Leaky valve, left the tank to leak empty, and came back to it after a little bit. It had stopped, i thought it had leaked all the pressure out. Even tapped the stem to see if there was any air left. Nothing. Started to pull the stem out... and fwoosh! Stem went into the ground, and the tank went into the hillside behind me. Only flew about 10 feet, but put istelf into about 3" of frozen ground. Madcat had a good view of the whole thing, and could probably recount that better.

Must of had some clog, but it didnt leak after I found the stem and got it back together.
That's about how I remember it as well That's the only time that I've ever witnessed a C02 "rocket". I've never had a burst disk vent either (though I have heard lots of stories about those events).

The only funky thing that I've ever had happen was the one time where the pin valve on my 20oz was stuck "open" after I removed it from my gun. It basically vented 18oz of CO2 through the valve, but it wasn't enough thrust to launch it anywhere. It was a dry-ice covered tank for the rest of the day.

After the tank was empty, the valve seemed to work just fine (no debris) and its worked well since
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar View Post
sometimes things are rare because they are pieces of
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
i just realized - those aren't flames on the blazer logo - it's leaking air.....
MadCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 01:41 PM   #27 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Walking_Target's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ON, Canada

HP has it right.. it is in the 45ft/lb range, it's been awhile since i have had to work on a tank.

As for valves with vent channels.. that's a major no-no. the propper method is to have an aproximate 1/16" (aprox) hole near the top of the threading through both sides of the valve body.

this safety feature DOES NOT interfere with anti-siphon or siphon setups in CO2 tanks if they have been propperly installed.

moreover, these safety holes are exactly why i would never use loctite. it is not needed and it increases, rather than decreases the chance of an accident.
__________________


Walking_Target is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 05:43 PM   #28 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
HP_Lovecraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Maine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCat View Post
That's about how I remember it as well That's the only time that I've ever witnessed a C02 "rocket". I've never had a burst disk vent either (though I have heard lots of stories about those events).
I witnessed about 3-4 Co2 rockets in the late 80s. But this was back before vents were added to pinvalves.

In all cases, someone accidentally crossthreaded the co2 tank. One case that I remember very well, someone had crossthreaded the 7oz onto an SMG60, and could not remove it. SO he had a friend hold the gun, while he turned it as hard as he could.......... BANG! The 7oz blasts away, bounces off the house, hits a van, the flies away about 300 feet.

Someone in 1989 was hit in the face by a Co2 rocket, and thats when the industry started adding the vent. That worked perfectly throughout the 90s.

The unfortunate death 3 years ago resulted from a threadlocked Co2 tank that had been removed in order to install an anti-siphon, then reinstalled. The user did not realize the threadlock had clogged the valve, and did not torque the valve properly.

As for burst-discs, in the 80s, and 90s, most were rated for 1800psi. I've seen probobly hundreds blow. These days, they are now rated mostly for 3000psi. I've never seen one of those blow.

nick
__________________
www.montneel.com

"the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
HP_Lovecraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 06:08 PM   #29 (permalink)
Seasoned Member
 
therealjt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008

or if you want to avoid all of this, empty your tank and ship it to the field or a friend close to the field...thats what i have always done. just make sure it is empty. (they can be shipped with the reg on)
jt
therealjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2008, 09:09 AM   #30 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
Chachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dayton, OH

I've got no idea why it failed, but a teammate of mine in college had a HP burst disk blow on his 68/4500 (yes, it was filled to proper specs). we just heard this really loud bang, and then his HPA tank froze over because of the venting. Hooray, PV=nRT! I've never seen that happen since.
__________________
-Wildcard


Thunderstruck

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~FinSec View Post
If it has tits or tires its gonna cause trouble.


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Chachi is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » New To The Sport

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC