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Outlaw / Private Fields Playing paintball in your backyard or other non-business run field

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Old 05-22-2011, 01:41 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by magman79 View Post
Have you seen the $400 luxfer 106 cu.ft 4350 psi tanks? With your two scuba fills and two of those you would have a lot of air. We were thinking of the shoebox but how long would you have to run it on shop air to get the capacity you need? Cost of electricity, shoebox, 4500 lease, teladyne vs. paid fill?
I've thought about those higher pressure SCUBA tanks but no one local will fill beyond 3200 psi. One might come handy in this scenario in place of the cylinder.

From what I've read on the Shoebox forums it fills 80 cf tanks at about 150 psi per hour. Faster during the lower pressure stage, slower beyond 2700 psi. It's not an ideal setup and would take quite a while to get my two tanks up to 1500 psi so I could run the booster to fill the rest of the way up to 4500. Power is cheap here so that's not a major concern - certainly compared to the $3,500 a 'real' compressor would cost.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:54 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by onecaribou View Post
Anyone have any thoughts about this setup I have been toying with putting together?

Essentially, it's a poor mans compressor I could put together for around $1,300. I own everything but the Shoebox, the Teladyne booster and a 4500 Cylinder (which I might lease).

From my research the Shoebox compressor works a whole lot better, faster putting out 1500 psi which is all a booster would need to compress the air up the rest of the way to 4500 psi.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_M...air%20idea.jpg
That setup looks overly expensive and complicated. I think you'd be better off with just using 2 or 3 4500psi shoeboxes to directly fill the 4500 cylinder. The gas booster uses quite a bit of air so it will require a big compressor. Another thing is that you will have to watch the fill. The booster will be much faster than the shoebox so the scubas will stay drained if the booster is left on, plus it will be running full speed(and using tons of shop air) until you get close to 4500psi. The total fill time will still be limited by how fast(slow) the shoebox is. Shoeboxes are much easier and cheaper to service too.

How much do gas boosters go for these days? I bought mine used for $900 but spend almost $200 in fittings and lines. Another thing you really need to add is real(not disposable) air dryer. Guys that fill small tanks don't notice, but if you fill a scuba you will get noticeable moisture. I went through 1 and 1/4 disposable desiccant filters to fill up one AL80.

My setup is a 33gal shop compressor that feeds a 3000psi shoebox to fill scuba tanks. I then use a powerstar 4b to boost it to fill PB tanks directly. The private field(1 hr away) has power, so when I'm there I use a contractor grade, 4 gal portable compressor to run the booster. It struggles a lot and requires frequent booster rebuilds due to all the moisture.




Quote:
Originally Posted by onecaribou View Post
From what I've read on the Shoebox forums it fills 80 cf tanks at about 150 psi per hour. Faster during the lower pressure stage, slower beyond 2700 psi. It's not an ideal setup and would take quite a while to get my two tanks up to 1500 psi so I could run the booster to fill the rest of the way up to 4500. Power is cheap here so that's not a major concern - certainly compared to the $3,500 a 'real' compressor would cost.
2(or 3) shoeboxes in parallel would be much faster than 1 shoebox/booster setup. I found that you can feed the 3000psi version of the shoebox 120psi and go from 0-2800psi in 12 hours without the stalling issue.

Last edited by ta2maki; 05-22-2011 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:29 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by magman79 View Post
Because the lease on a hpa bottle was way to much. My best friend lives 2 miles from the scuba shop and comes here to play and the paintball store is 20 miles away and can fill them. Plus I have a used one coming in so I'll have two to fill the 6 4500 tanks i have for the 12 guns I have.

In the directions I got with the brand new tank it says the valving torque should be 95-130 Nm. Which is 70 to 95 ft lbs.
can you post a picture of this? please
at the scuba shop i purchased a few of my tanks from and used to get air filled MORE then one tech has told me that you screw the valves on hand tight and the pressure will do the rest..... now I MIGHT be able to screw my valve in to 90ftlbs by hand so i'd just like to see this from the manufacture as i've never seen anything like this, AND YES ruined threads are a BIG cause of failed tanks.

others would be appreciative to bc LOTS of people use scubas for fills here
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:30 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onecaribou View Post
Anyone have any thoughts about this setup I have been toying with putting together?

Essentially, it's a poor mans compressor I could put together for around $1,300. I own everything but the Shoebox, the Teladyne booster and a 4500 Cylinder (which I might lease).

From my research the Shoebox compressor works a whole lot better, faster putting out 1500 psi which is all a booster would need to compress the air up the rest of the way to 4500 psi.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_M...air%20idea.jpg

just save up and by a compressor off ebay for 2,000. after all that work and hassle your time inculded you will be way beyond the price of a good used compressor from ebay
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:43 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangus999 View Post
can you post a picture of this? please
at the scuba shop i purchased a few of my tanks from and used to get air filled MORE then one tech has told me that you screw the valves on hand tight and the pressure will do the rest..... now I MIGHT be able to screw my valve in to 90ftlbs by hand so i'd just like to see this from the manufacture as i've never seen anything like this, AND YES ruined threads are a BIG cause of failed tanks.

others would be appreciative to bc LOTS of people use scubas for fills here
Found this. Valve installation torque values for Luxfer aluminum alloy cylinders and liners - Luxfer: Setting The Standard Worldwide

Looks like you don't want to be torquing down with a wrench, unless it leaks. I think common scubas are threaded .750-14.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech-bulletin
Maximum torque for North American new, straight-thread brass valves installed into new Luxfer aluminum alloy cylinders and composite cylinder liners—use the least possible torque to make a leak-tight seal
Straight-thread dimension Torque not to exceed
.625 – 18 UNF 50 lbf-ft (67.7 Nm)
.750 - 14 NGS 100 lbf-ft (135.58 Nm)
.750 - 16 UNF 75 lbf-ft (81.34 Nm)
.875 – 14 UNF 80 lbf-ft (108.46 Nm)
1.125 – 12 UNF 100 lbf-ft (135.58 Nm)
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Old 05-31-2011, 10:58 PM   #56 (permalink)
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excellent! thanks for that info.
so as it looks my scuba shop is correct.
i'll take the advice of certified people who use their equipment as a life support system any day. their life depends on it.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:04 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Here's Catalina's instruction.
Valving of SCUBA (Air) Cylinders They also state to tighten by hand.
Quote:
Hand tightening of the valve should seat the valve completely on the cylinder (i.e. no gap between the valve and the cylinder). If there is still a gap between the valve and the bottom of the cylinder lightly tap the valve handle with a rawhide or rubber mallet to seat the valve completely. The valve should only rotate 45o (1/8 of a turn) from the point of hand tightening to fully seated. If you decide to seat the valve using a torque wrench, following are recommended torque values by Catalina Cylinders and the CGA:


Thread Designation Catalina Cylinders
Recommended Torque Catalina Cylinders
Maximum Torque
.750 - 16 UNF 40 lbf-ft 50 lbf-ft
¾ - 14 NGS (NPSM) 40 lbf-ft 50 lbf-ft
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Old 10-13-2015, 08:50 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Cruising google and I found this thread.....

I've been using 6k nitrogen tanks for years.

The initial cost is a bit much. A fill station can run anywhere from $300 - $1100 depending on how easy you want to make this on yourself.

Then the plumbing (hoses rated at 9500psi) can be spendy. You don't want a cheap chinese hose blowing up in your face with 6000 pounds of pressure.

Next thing to note is the math. I'm not a math guy. But I can tell you that with two 6k tanks (each weighing about 300lbs) I would get 25-30 fills on my player's 4500psi paintball tanks.

Keep in mind, if you are filling a 4500psi tank off of your 6000psi bulk tank, once the bulk tank hits 4500psi you are equalized and done filling 4500's. Now every tank you fill will only go as high as your bulk tank pressure.
Solution: get two tanks. You're going to have to get some more hose and a fitting or two to hook them both up and make life easier. But now, you crack open the first 6k tank. Fill your 4500 no problem. But uh oh, you have equalized your tanks again! For the next tank, you start with tank #1. Fill as high as you can. Now you close tank 1, open tank 2 which is still at 6k. Now you top off your paintball tank and you will get 4500. Now you can use tank #1 until it's almost empty, and get the most out of your cost of filling them.

They are heavy. yes. They are spendy to set up. yes. But worth it in the long run. I was running an outlaw field and was charging $10 for all day unlimited fills. Best money I ever made (once I got past start up costs).
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:59 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Friends of mine work at a compressed gas supplier. Sometimes we bring one of these to big games so we don't have to wait for fills. Also great for shooting in the back yard.
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