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-   -   PSP Officially Changes ROF (https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/paintball-news/29584-psp-officially-changes-rof.html)

Ir0nExpress 01-10-2008 05:42 AM

PSP Officially Changes ROF
 
PSP Officially Changes ROF | Paintball Headlines

Quote:

The PSP has officially changed the ROF from 15 (technically 15.4) balls per second down to 13.33 BPS.

It’s actually one ball every 75 milliseconds, which does translate into 13 1/3 BPS (75 * 40 / 3 = 25 * 40 = 1000 ~ 1), but it’s actually too fast for 13.33 BPS (75 * 13.33 = 999.75 < 1000 therefore, it's too fast).

But that assumes that all the shots are consistent, which there are often possibilities where that isn't the case.

The PSP rules also state that only a maximum of 3 shots per trigger pull can be fired. Here's the time over 1 pull if the firing is consistent:

pull = fire + 75 ms + fire + 75 ms + fire + 75 ms = 225 ms (assuming the time firing takes is consistent and negligible)

Another case, let's say a ball takes a bit to load, say an extra 20 ms (don't argue, my loader is super fast, so that's not going to happen, whatever, **** happens):

pull = fire + 75 ms + 20 ms (slow ball loading) + fire + 75 ms + fire + 75 ms = 245 ms (assuming the same as above)

You just got jipped out of 20 ms. For that time period,you just shot ~12.24 BPS.

Let's say the same thing happens, but the board software is able to compensate for those few milliseconds (it's totally feasible for the software to be able to do this):

pull = fire + 75 ms + 20 ms (slow ball loading) + fire + 55 ms + fire + 75 ms = 225 ms (same assumptions)

Now, you just shot 13 1/3 (about 13.33) BPS, which is what the general rules state, but you would actually receive a gross penalty for more than one shot in a 65 ms time span.

So, the rules are actually, you may shoot 1 ball every 75 ms, not 13.33 BPS.

Also, in order to truly determine if the rate of fire is 13.33 or under (actually, 13 1/3) is to measure the gun over a 3 second time span (1/3 shots take some work to measure) and see if it shoots 40 shots or less over that time period with at least 14 (or 13) trigger pulls (13 1/3 pulls technically. If it the measurement didn’t start exactly when the first trigger pull occurred but after it but the first shot was counted as time 0, it could be done in 13 since the shot(s) from the previous trigger pull would run into the time period i.e. the 1 shot from the previous trigger pull plus the 39 from the subsequent 13 pulls). Now, of course, they aren’t going to measure it that way, since it’s a waste of paint and time, and probably seems a tad complicated. They’re going to measure it using a simplistic representation of it, as in, you need 75 ms between shots, because it’s easier and can represent 13.33 BPS (really, 13 1/3), but it’s not always true, as shown in the case above.

Am I saying their 75 ms between shots is bad? No, I’m just saying that saying it’s not 13.33 BPS (again, 13 1/3). It can be, but it’s not always. The rules should only state the 75 ms rule, not 13.33 BPS.

As a side note, I’m wondering how boards calculate their shots.

Does it use multi-threading, like a thread for each function (trigger monitoring, eye monitoring, rate of fire, etc.) or is it more of a when an event occurs, check the sensors then fire. I think I’m going to write a python script to demonstrate this.

Magoo 01-10-2008 05:46 AM

Cool. So it's official now. Heck, maybe more mech players will join the fray soon!

tootall 01-10-2008 06:44 AM

if you need to shot more then 1 ball every 75ms to hit someone..............


you need to practice more..........LOL

Talfuchre 01-10-2008 08:32 AM

Dear God. Why don't they make it easy. You have to pull the trigger every time you want a ball to come out.

TF

Azzy 01-10-2008 08:38 AM

If you are so worried about .9bps and being cheated out of it... you got some problems. Want to make sure you arent fined? Set your gun to 11bps.

There.. that was easy :)

SHAG 01-10-2008 09:56 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talfuchre (Post 283977)
Dear God. Why don't they make it easy. You have to pull the trigger every time you want a ball to come out.

TF

That would be to easy. Besides don't give Smart Parts any ideas about patenting one ball per trigger technology. You have to give cheats to make the cheaters happy. 3 balls per trigger pull. Sounds lazy to me. Sounds like you will be the last man on the draw either way.

High ROFs do compensate somewhat for that draw but not by much. When you raise you are not bound but high mechanical weight to squeeze the trigger, just by the click of the switch's weight.

Seriously though, I do not think mechanicals will be making a come back in tourney ball. Maybe on the lower levels but not on the premiere levels. It's just electros are here to stay.

Some people I play with never cared for electros. In the past few years, they got electros because they realized they needed to adapt to a newer playing environment. There was a local speed ball field. These are very good players too. The one guy got an e-gun cause it was getting harder to pull the trigger anymore. Playing for the last 20 years with pumps and mags, shoulder and back injuries, did not agree with playing either. I watched the same guy years ago dive into a bunker and come up with such a painful look in his face.

Later,
shaggy

skiddish9999 01-10-2008 11:27 AM

I fail to see how this will change anything.......You'll lose 2 balls so what.....(ask a married guy what it's like:ROTFL:)

And shag your signature is wrong the legislated that he gets paid 400,000 while Kerry was a senator.....So when Kerry ran for president he would of received 200,000 if he was in office.....Bush receives 400,000 though (he wasn't a part of them legislating it is why that this holds true).

:Focus:

Like I said though....This is not going to change anything other then the fact that boards will now have settings to cap at 13.33

so meh

skiddish

Daze 01-10-2008 11:40 AM

"The PSP rules also state that only a maximum of 3 shots per trigger pull can be fired."

If they can police that, they can police 1 shot per trigger pull.

But I figure it actually means that the pulls to start and keep ramping up will be raised to 4.4 pulls per second, instead of 3.x it is now.

So its actually two changes. One to lower ROF, the other to raise (very slightly) the difficulty of ramping.

Mr. Furious 01-10-2008 12:21 PM

Didn't we do about 20 pages on this when it was believed that it probably would be 13.33BPS?

EDIT: Hey, yeah. 20 pages exactly.

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/p...owered-20.html

Maybe we could merge the threads to avoid the carpal tunnel (and emotional scarring) flare ups?

Anonymous Coward 01-10-2008 03:27 PM

Now I know I'm a lowly recreational player, but can anyone point me to the article where the justification or the absolute need for such a change to take affect was warranted? Or is this a bunch of panhandling to certain parties? I don't see anything mentioned about safety reasons and if it was safety related, then all it took was 2 ball in a single second to make that big of a difference?

froggy 01-10-2008 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiddish9999 (Post 284115)
I fail to see how this will change anything.......You'll lose 2 balls so what.....(ask a married guy what it's like:ROTFL:)

:ROTFL:
unless you're John Kruk

Anonymous Coward see original thread that went for 20 pages, think your question was covered there at one point
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/p...g-lowered.html

Horizon 01-10-2008 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward (Post 284354)
Now I know I'm a lowly recreational player, but can anyone point me to the article where the justification or the absolute need for such a change to take affect was warranted? Or is this a bunch of panhandling to certain parties? I don't see anything mentioned about safety reasons and if it was safety related, then all it took was 2 ball in a single second to make that big of a difference?

It's panhandling to a certain party. The CEO of the PSP was approached by industry leaders (manufacturers) to lower the rate of fire in hopes that there will be a trickle down effect to lower level leagues, and yes, recreational play so that the current decline in paintball participation can in hopes be reversed. It's not much but it's a start.

Mr. Furious 01-10-2008 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 284734)
It's panhandling to a certain party. The CEO of the PSP was approached by industry leaders (manufacturers) to lower the rate of fire in hopes that there will be a trickle down effect to lower level leagues, and yes, recreational play so that the current decline in paintball participation can in hopes be reversed. It's not much but it's a start.

If they drop two more for next year we'll be at the max rate of the old Shocker Turbo's; 11.2 BPS. I liked that cap. Fast enough to get almost any runner on the move but slow enough you had to know how to shoot to get them.

splattttttt 01-11-2008 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 284734)
It's panhandling to a certain party. The CEO of the PSP was approached by industry leaders (manufacturers) to lower the rate of fire in hopes that there will be a trickle down effect to lower level leagues, and yes, recreational play so that the current decline in paintball participation can in hopes be reversed. It's not much but it's a start.

Funny. All the while I was thinking the reason for dropping the rate of fire, was so that the players might be able to add a millisecond to accomplish theie next move in hopes of avoiding being hit. Avoid being hit? Sorry, that made no sense.

blackrain 01-11-2008 04:13 PM

Oh I can see companies and agglets raising HELL. Why can't I shoot 30 BPS. It doesn't make sence. HMMMM maybe I should post this question over at PBN lol. Well I guess Auto Cockers might make a come back with low rate of fire.
Later,
Blackrain:)

sdawg 01-12-2008 02:52 PM

They have been raising hell, but Lane Wright gets to make the decision, not them.

Moreover, I think that PSP is trying to lower the cost of tournament paintball. The biggest expense for any team has to be paint. They're also making most of the matches at the various levels a "race" to certain a certain point total instead of unlimited points.

Mr. Furious 01-12-2008 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdawg (Post 285964)
They have been raising hell, but Lane Wright gets to make the decision, not them.

Moreover, I think that PSP is trying to lower the cost of tournament paintball. The biggest expense for any team has to be paint. They're also making most of the matches at the various levels a "race" to certain a certain point total instead of unlimited points.

If they made it 10BPS the paint cost would drop by 33%. Probably more because big moves would happen more often and break the games open quicker. Dropping 2BPS is a start but not significant enough to make a substantial difference IMHO.


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