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cliffords the man 12-21-2009 05:47 PM

does camo help.... ?
 
hey guys,

I wondered what you think of camo in woodsball

I from personal experience think it makes alot of difference,
I remember playing a game on a large field with smaller numbers,
I was wearing a bright white colardo avalanche ice hockey jersey. and tried to out flank the enemy but the white jersey didn't blend too much with the shrubs.

Im not really going for the whole guille style at all but is there a particular jersey you could recommend for an all round woodsball camoflague ?
:confused::confused:

cheers,
clifford

fossilhead 12-21-2009 05:49 PM

look for olive colors.

foughtwolf 12-21-2009 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffords the man (Post 1094777)
hey guys,

I wondered what you think of camo in woodsball

I from personal experience think it makes alot of difference,
I remember playing a game on a large field with smaller numbers,
I was wearing a bright white colardo avalanche ice hockey jersey. and tried to out flank the enemy but the white jersey didn't blend too much with the shrubs.

Im not really going for the whole guille style at all but is there a particular jersey you could recommend for an all round woodsball camoflague ?
:confused::confused:

cheers,
clifford

A drab color helps, but honestly the two top things for not being seen are easy. Dont move to quick, and break up hard lines and angles with a strip of camo tape.

Critical 12-21-2009 05:52 PM

Like was said already, muted colors. In reality, most of todays woodsball fields are so stripped of brush that it's just a race from bunker to bunker, camo doesn't matter.

Chachi 12-21-2009 06:09 PM

look at the environments you're playing in, and find a jersey with colors that are close. Exact doesn't matter, close is what you want.

for example, you wouldn't want to wear ACU in a new-growth wooded area (ACU is way too gray/white for that environment, and you'd stick out like a sore thumb)

Agglet 12-21-2009 06:09 PM

I find that most of the guys that rely on camo overestimate how hidden they actually are they seem to confuse camouflage bdus with invisibility suits. My secret to complete ninja success is to stay behind something, pick my shots, move when there is plenty of noise and always eat a good breakfast including fruit and grains.

Titus 12-21-2009 06:23 PM

Ask Ninja Dave, he'll tell you.

LilShank 12-21-2009 06:40 PM

I wear MarPat BDU's in the woods, it helps in my opinion, but like foughtwolf said, don't move too quick, let them come to you. If you do choose to wear something other than just drab colors, make sure you get something that matches the terrain you'll be playing in.

Listessa 12-21-2009 06:53 PM

I don't know. I mean, it's paintball. It's not like anyone is a real sniper sitting somewhere for hours upon end.

Granted, brighter colors show up more, but if you know how to move less obviously it will help more. Plus, if you have a bright or shiny gun it tends to negate the whole camo thing.

Mar 12-21-2009 06:59 PM

yeah, Camo helps.

I have lost a guy a time or two due to Camo. I usually wear Camo myself, I mean, it certainly doesn't hurt, right?

That being said, bright colours can give you away, so why not wear camo?

R_Os 12-21-2009 07:01 PM

Bt's woodland digi works well. Its dark though so it helps if there is a good canopy overhead. Plus you can get pants, jersey and all sorts of molle gear in the same camo.

FiXeL 12-21-2009 07:01 PM

Camo as in camouflage? Well it works, but any muted colors will work. Olive, black, anything that does'nt stand out too much will work. You can't always blend in perfecly without it being practical for play. I've used camo, but i've dyed all of my camo gear black now.. No difference at all.

Prepaid Lenin 12-21-2009 07:22 PM

The human eye is far more attenuated to spotting movement than it ever will be at spotting still things.

But like Mar said, camo never hurt anyone.

Camo never hurt anyone outside of hunting season.

Spider! 12-21-2009 07:37 PM

camo works. as noted above, you're only "invisible" if you are not moving. I've actually been standing still with a few small trees (six to eight inch diameter) between me and a guy actually looking for someone to come down the trail, and he could not see me at about 30 yards. I stood in the open and waited for him to cross the trail. He was no newb either, I was coming around back and expected him to be checking.

I've also walked between players on a defense line 20 yards apart. They were hidden well enough that they couldn't see me creeping up. I had to turn around to shoot.

That doesn't mean you can't disappear wearing a red Hawaiian print shirt; however, it is fun when you have to shoot people before they walk too close in the middle of the day.

On the other hand, head-to-toe bdu's are not as good as a variety or, as LilShank noted, something that matches the field. You can go seasonal as well. Often small leaf hollies and cedars are bright green in the spring. I have a pair of freebie paintball pants that are bright green camo that make people laugh in the fall, but in the spring my legs are almost completely hidden in low growth.

Never try to hide in all white or any bright solid color. My son's first stalk was on a guy in a blue speed ball outfit laying under a tree on the other end of the field, next to a creek. We spotted him at game on and my son just crept down the creek beside him.

White shoes are the worst, lots of bright movement. White shirts are almost as bad.

I've also talked to a guy in a Ghillie on the field that I never did actually see. :confused:

alpha434 12-21-2009 08:00 PM

How you use camo depends on your playing style.

I'm very aggressive.
So I rely on camo as my last-ditch defense. Ideally, after I've made a mistake or two, the camo will give me that extra few seconds to fix things.

I also concentrate on shooting very very quiet guns. Occasionally, somebody will run clean by me and they won't see me because they're moving and the camo doesn't stand out. Nothing to give me away.

The big part though is your mask. And your gun. Everything else gets stuck behind a bunker. Camo doesn't help too much when running between bunkers. So the big giveaway is pointing a shiny gun at somebody with a shiny hopper on top. Maybe the human eye is attracted to movement, but the male eye is attracted to shiny! That doesn't mean you can't have different colored gear. It just has to be a little subdued. Dust brick red for instance. The mask is almost always one solid dark spot and people learn to shoot at the dark spot whether it moves or not. I always wear a white mask. That messes 'em up. Dull white > Black .

Gas mask 12-21-2009 08:47 PM

I've always found camo to be helpful. Even more so when the snow hits, because then people are still used to shooting at bushes... not the snowbank with a boomstick poking out of it.:gunsfiring:

O CAB05 12-21-2009 09:10 PM

Haha. I wouldn't suggest wearing bright orange in the woods...Imagine. you run down the field and theres a guy wearing bright orange or a guy wearing camoflauge. What do you think you'll see faster? A brighter color, esp white will catch your eye easily. While a guy wearing a greenish color can win a split second reaction if you ran past him, because you wouldn't notice him as fast. It's common sense, but still. I think wearing black is the best for woods.

splattttttt 12-21-2009 09:30 PM

It's only good until you're detected. Once I'm able to distinguish you from vegetation, I won't loose you like it's happened to MAr.
Camo is better than bright colors though.

Festa 12-21-2009 09:31 PM

It is all contextual. Does it help to try and blend in with your surroundings when you're not moving? Absolutely. Is it critical? Not really. My jersey has bright yellow chickens on the front and back and I still can manage to get the drop on people simply by being sneaky and staying behind cover. The human eye easily pick up things that move laterally compared to directly at the viewer and is great at picking up patterns. Know what is behind you and try not to present an easily identifiable silhouette. Try to be aware of what you look like to your target. I think you'll find that simply changing how you play can increase your stealth more than changing your clothes will.

p-bpat 12-21-2009 09:41 PM

Let me tell you, it will not make a difference what you are wearing when your in full sprint down the center of the field hollering, and waving a bright red flag (and you have a rubber duck glued to your hopper).

alpha434 12-21-2009 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-bpat (Post 1095040)
Let me tell you, it will not make a difference what you are wearing when your in full sprint down the center of the field hollering, and waving a bright red flag (and you have a rubber duck glued to your hopper).

Spoken with experience.

Ir0nExpress 12-22-2009 02:24 AM

Move like a cat. Imitate a cat when it's spotted prey and move exactly like they do. Movement is key.

PistolRogue 12-22-2009 02:35 AM

Is camo necessary? Of course not. I have a guy on my team who has run around at outlaw games wearing jeans and a red flannel shirt and he's managed to get more barrel tags on people in a single game than I've ever seen anyone else get.

With that said, a good camo for your area will HELP. It won't make you invisible, and you still have to remember the "order of visibility":

1) Movement
2) Color
3) Outline

I'd say movement is 60-75% of stealth. Knowing when to move and when not to. Always staying at the fringe of your target's peripheral vision. Not shooting at them when they're looking toward you, etc. Color is 15-30%. You still have to worry about being spotted by people that YOU might not see. Two players are laying in the brush, who are they going to see first, the guy in a well-selected camo, or the guy with a bright red mask and jersey? Then the remaining 10-25% is outline. This is what the guys with ghillie suits are trying to eliminate. You have to ask if that 10-25% is worth the extra heat, drag, and overall cumbersome nature of a ghillie though. On most fields, I'd wager its not, especially smaller ones. Large, heavily wooded fields though, I can see their usefulness.

To me, the thing I always tend to spot first is a player's mask or hopper, because they're generally the two highest things off the ground. I wear MARPAT and use a ripped up MARPAT BDU jacket to sort of "ghillie up" my mask, and I camo spray-painted my hoppers. I've noticed a big difference in my ability to sneak around this way. But if I decide to charge up the middle of the trail or lay down somewhere obvious, its not going to help me.

Its all up to the player. I feel that the more well concealed I am, the more eliminations I tend to make. But again it all depends on the player and the field. There are plenty of guys better than me who don't wear camo and get along just fine. There are plenty on the other side of the spectrum too. If its a mostly structured field with lots of bunkers camo's not going to help you as much as it would in deep woods, either.

nickydp33 12-22-2009 03:05 AM

usually i dont even bother cuz my style is to move around alot, once my current jersey an pants die, i might purchase some darker paintball pants but i prolly wont buy another jersey an just use camo w\e

ginger ninja 12-22-2009 03:29 AM

to borrow the words of one of the guys (Kabs) from my club:

"Why Are Thing Seen

This might seem as though it is not improtant but on the contrary it can aid you in cam and concealment as well as identifying targets quicker and more easily.

To remember it, it is abreviated ' 5 sl#%s and a mole '

S urface- a surface shiney or simply one colour are redily seen. flashes of light reflected from metals like your gat. Reflective lenses on your mask.

S hape- distinctive outlines, shadows, unatural shapes that dont blend into the surrounding environment.

S hadows- casting shadows, shadows may be visible to the enemy even if you are behind cover. Always check the direction of you shadow.

S ilhoutte- your body outline against a background such as water, a wall or the sky. Very prominent on the top of ridgelines silhoutting off the sky.

S pacing- in nature objects are rarley spaced evenly, so to combat this stagger your section when patroling or setting up a defensive position.

M ovement- self explanatory, the biggest one that reveals your location or the enemys. Big movements will catch your eye instantly try to keep your movement slow and controled.

Another factor that needs a mention is noise.
Noises that do not contrast into the normal enviroment such as foot steps, opening of velcro pouches, radios, rustling of plants, grass ect, rip clips going off at 90 BPS"

At the distances paintball is effective at Camo comes under the banner of "its better than the alternative" i have bright orange hair that after a few months i learned to cover up as one guy put it "its like a freaking Camo highlighter running through the bush!!!"

The Inflicted 12-22-2009 04:11 AM

When you see it....
https://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-c...ock_camo_1.JPG






























































You'll poop bricks.
https://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-c...ock_camo_3.JPG

cliffords the man 12-22-2009 06:18 AM

thanks for all the info and advice guys :)

Im going to try and get a jersey to fit my field

and then take into advice what you said next time Im out with my phantom
cheers

acesn8s 12-22-2009 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Inflicted (Post 1095385)


LOL. Don't want to give it away.

R.J. 12-22-2009 10:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 12695
Type 38 smock in palmtarn

I wear a camo smock type 42 in planetree or oaktarn and find that they bend very well.For pants I like something in od green or kakhi.

I find that solid colors do not give you away as much when you are moving so I comprmise with solid pants and camo top as my legs move more than my body.

RJ

agentSmith 12-22-2009 01:17 PM

In broken brush camo can be a small disadvantage, but nowhere at PB ranges is it good for much.

If I were to hold up a big white sheet of paper with a hole in the middle and behind the hole I were to unroll a roll of white paper you would not be able to tell if the paper in back were moving or not while looking at the front.
However, if I were to put a dot every 6 inches on that roll of paper then you would see the dots moving past the hole in the front paper and be able to tell if the paper in back were moving and EXACTLY how fast.

This is because human eyes(all eyes) can only detect movement on an edge. Wearing camo, while very effective at firearm ranges too far to distinguish the edges, makes movement in a paintball ranged person a hundred times easier to spot than a solid color especially detecting movement through holes in brush. For this reason I've always wore solid green or Olive/Drab. However the only real effective way to hide yourself is to have a structure like a bunker in between you and your opponent and the best clothes made for paintball are ALL camo, so even though this one is legit, it's not enough difference to keep one from wearing camo if one enjoys it.

Rob

The Inflicted 12-22-2009 02:08 PM

I'm a fan of the darker green camo schemes since I play in the American South, where it stays lush and green for most of the year.
This pic should show the difference between MARPAT (top) and the BT digital (pants).
https://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1513/pants008.jpg

Another pattern I think has some merit and would like to see become cheaper and more available in the states is PENCOTT, from the creatively-named Hyde Definition: Hyde Definition | PenCott British Digital Camouflage Clothing | About PenCott | Camouflage Explained
https://www.camotest.de/gallery/image...es/pencott.jpg
https://strikehold.files.wordpress.co...tt-field20.jpg

Ramous 12-22-2009 06:56 PM

My "camo" is a black T-shirt. People rarely see me sneaking up on them untill i shoot at them.

Honestly you would be fine with a darker colored mask and a dark shirt. It doesnt necessarily have to be a camo pattern for you to blend in. :thumbup:

b-cuzz 12-22-2009 07:09 PM

I'm so confused I can't even answer the qustion that started this thread.

gun: ALL chrome
shirt: black sweatshirt (or t-shirt)
pants: old school woodland BDU's
mask: black JT Spectra with a yellow lens

I've had opponents (Army trained) look right at me and not see me with very little cover on a woodsball field (no movement).
On any other field, nobody seems to know I'm there (tactics and shot choosing).

Unless
a: they're afraid of a crazy ex-Marine (hey, it's an ego-inflating possibility),
b: they feel sorry for me for being obvious (not likely, given the people I play with),
3: a delicate (but not very well thought out) balance of pattern-breaking, tactics, and using terrain to advantage actually works,
I honestly have no clue whatsoever how I keep sending unease and discomfort toward the other team.

Spider! 12-22-2009 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-cuzz (Post 1096031)
I've had opponents (Army trained) look right at me and not see me with very little cover on a woodsball field (no movement).
On any other field, nobody seems to know I'm there (tactics and shot choosing).

From what I've seen, basic air force and army training is not much benefit for paintball. I've always assumed it is the survival concept impeding play. Vets on the other hand are much more individual. I used to play with Vietnam vets, they were often scary either on or off the field.

This is where I mentioned head-to-toe bdu's. Those starched hats, shirts, and pants make a common profile that you learn to see.

ASKA 12-22-2009 09:37 PM

Camo is useless. There's a guy at my woods field that we call "the ghost of the forest". he normally plays in a bright pink jersey and he still manages to shoot us in the back.

just walk slowly and listen. I made it around the whole team once, just moveing slowly to a position, then just listen for some twigs snapping near your or voices. if it is silent, then move up.

TheYoda 12-23-2009 12:00 AM

As stated a dozen times already camo can't hurt if it is the right camo for your environment. This only works if you also take care of the other things that are not camouflaged as well. I find in paintball that many other things give you away. Movement is the biggest (already stated). The glare form goggles and hoppers are next. White socks anyone? You'd be surprised. Bright colors on markers and tank covers. Harnesses.

If I am playing woodsball and trying to do the stealth thing I wear dark colors with a broken up pattern. Doesn't have to be camo. Hiking shoes that are brown, green and black. Black socks. Dark or camo tank cover (no logos). Matte smoke hopper. (My 4 color camo Blazer was perfect for this, but I don't have that any more.) I'm also old and don't move quickly any more.
If I decide to play the sniper I find a perfect spot and hunker down. I have this sheer camo veil-thing that I keep in my pocket. Once settled I drape the veil over my mask. Sitting still with this set up I pretty much can't be seen. All bets are off once I move or start shooting when too close.

bgearing 12-23-2009 12:36 AM

I disagree that camo can't hurt.

If I wear camo and it works, then that means that I've goo go and find the other guy before I can shoot him. But if I wear bright colors, make sure I'm in clear view, and yell a lot, then the other guys come to me and I can go ahead and shoot them with a lot less effort.

In any case, I prefer to create a lot of confusion through sheer deception, if possible. In any woodsball game big enough to make Camo useful, my goal is to get onto the other side of the field and convince the other team that I'm one of them. This can be accomplished by moving quickly, much of the time. You simply run up as far as you can, but before you make contact with the enemy you turn around, and start shooting over your teammate's heads. You yell to the opposing team, "GUYS! HELP! I've got one behind the tree and one behind the spool!" Keep communicating with the opposing team as if they're your own. If they start shooting at your teammates, get a good position and shoot them. If you sense they're not sure what to do, but not quite buying it, shoot them immediately. If they shoot at you first, scream and cuss at them for shooting their own team, and a lot of times they stop. Then you cn shoot them.

Alternately, you can frequently just walk through a gap. Don't run, walk until someone shoots at you. The key to this is field awareness. I suggest reffing enough that you get an idea for what players are actually aware of on the field.. usually they key in on a target and don't pay a lot of attention to things that don't shoot back. Be the thing that doesn't shoot back and work your way around, then yell and shout just as if you were communicating to your own team while shooting the bad guys in the back.

I think you'll find that the back is by far the best place to shoot anyone. Most paintballers, by far, hold their guns in front of them. It makes it very hard to shoot back at an opponent shooting at your back. Also, you don't have to deal with cover. Cover is annoying. It makes you shoot at a very small target like a hopper or mask. Most paintballers have extremely poor form when viewed from behind, they leave their whole back open to people behind them. Also, I find that snap-shooting is an overrated skill when viewed from this perspective. I rarely find that I have trouble finding the time to aim at a player whose back is turned to me, particularly when they believe I'm on their team.

Mar 12-23-2009 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgearing (Post 1096414)
I disagree

gasp!

russc 12-23-2009 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASKAJAIMES (Post 1096198)
Camo is useless. There's a guy at my woods field that we call "the ghost of the forest". he normally plays in a bright pink jersey and he still manages to shoot us in the back.

just walk slowly and listen. I made it around the whole team once, just moveing slowly to a position, then just listen for some twigs snapping near your or voices. if it is silent, then move up.

So...what you're saying is that camo is useless if nobody sees you.

sparky 12-23-2009 03:04 AM

Personally , I find camo to be utterly useless. It gets me hawt and bothered, exceedingly inapproriate for paintball , and has zero sex appeal. Only old men in tights wear camo.

:p

No but more seriously, it only helps to a small degree. Any movement and the camo becomes useless. I currently play in a bright red and white shirt, and have no problems hiding in the bush or sneaking up on people in the open. Just stand still when being looked at, and only move when a sound distraction is being made.

Cover fire to me is about people making noise instead of putting someones head down. Hides the approach.


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