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-   -   9/16...11/16 (https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/autocockers/318454-9-16-11-16-a.html)

woouulf 02-16-2019 12:02 PM

Most 11/16 are in the 200-230 psi range as I remember compared to 300-325 to 9/16 ..

hellion360 02-16-2019 12:17 PM

Yeah the 11/16ths tend towards being lower in pressure with a larger valve face. There is no particular performance difference as far as I have seen. The milling on the 11/16 valved bodies is simpler to execute since there is no internal threading or step.

jerryjjackson69 02-16-2019 12:34 PM

11/16 doesn't require a valve tool, typically can run a lower pressure, and doesn't have the extra valve nut part.

Ydna 02-17-2019 01:46 AM

Mostly I think it's just a change in manufacturing, or possibly a change made to volumize the air chamber, I can't say which concept came first (chicken or egg). The valve stem itself is very similar if not identical between the two, so it's just the valve housing which is different shaped.

magmoormaster 02-17-2019 01:48 PM

Gaurantee it was a machining cost change. The first wgp cocker to use an 11/16th valve was the trilogy. Many many design decisions were made on that gun to get machining costs down, which is why they were able to retail them for so little. The valve design was definitely one of them, seeing how they were set from the factory at 300 psi.After the trilogy, the 06 black magic had them, same with the SR.

That's at least true on the wgp side of things, which has been perpetuated by modern companies like inception.

Alternatively, aka did 11/16th valves in their merlins because they were gunning for the lowest possible operating pressure. Drilling the entire bottom tube out to 11/16th meant that they could mini their guns and still have more volume than a full size 2k spec gun.

fossilhead 02-17-2019 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magmoormaster (Post 3559916)
Gaurantee it was a machining cost change. The first wgp cocker to use an 11/16th valve was the trilogy. Many many design decisions were made on that gun to get machining costs down, which is why they were able to retail them for so little. The valve design was definitely one of them, seeing how they were set from the factory at 300 psi.After the trilogy, the 06 black magic had them, same with the SR.

That's at least true on the wgp side of things, which has been perpetuated by modern companies like inception.

Alternatively, aka did 11/16th valves in their merlins because they were gunning for the lowest possible operating pressure. Drilling the entire bottom tube out to 11/16th meant that they could mini their guns and still have more volume than a full size 2k spec gun.

Bam!
Thats what I was looking for.

The_Hyren 04-01-2019 12:13 AM

Additionally the 11/16 valve is held by the valve body locking set screw only where the 9/16 used the locking set screw solely for indexing and the jam nut held the valve in place. The 11/16 chamber of the trilogy and sr are not straight through, never owned a BM, there is a shelf created where the trigger frame screw goes in, otherwise that screw would need thread sealer to not leak. And in SRs the chamber is off center and narrow due to the body recession for the pilot of the front solenoid.

Valve wise your choices are namely, aka, ID, alien, pps, and wgp (delrin in SRs, brass in trilogies)

The ID is a minor improvement to the aka, a drag wing design such that air flowing around the wings adds closing forces which makes the dwell lower which improves efficiency.

The alien is 2x the cost but fully balanced, sadly the machining is off and they take lots of work to get working right. They also don't fit in SR due to the length of the valve being too long. Advantages are namely less hammer spring tension so lower lpr so better paint handling. Also very quiet and bass heavy sound, **** efficiency.

Others are pointless.

Cunha 04-01-2019 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magmoormaster (Post 3559916)
Gaurantee it was a machining cost change. The first wgp cocker to use an 11/16th valve was the trilogy. Many many design decisions were made on that gun to get machining costs down, which is why they were able to retail them for so little. The valve design was definitely one of them, seeing how they were set from the factory at 300 psi.After the trilogy, the 06 black magic had them, same with the SR.

That's at least true on the wgp side of things, which has been perpetuated by modern companies like inception.

Alternatively, aka did 11/16th valves in their merlins because they were gunning for the lowest possible operating pressure. Drilling the entire bottom tube out to 11/16th meant that they could mini their guns and still have more volume than a full size 2k spec gun.

Its a machining issue like you suspected.

Akalmp was making their own extrusion and also wanted to clean up the process.

Old valve type is sheridan based.

All valve variations including the setup meteor uses have been for cost.

I think the aka cocker valve and the merlin valve run at same pressures. I dont think the 9 16 is limiting in this way.

I like the 9 16 because of tradition. No valve tool on the 11 16 is nice.

The 9 16 is more secure with the jam nut. You might argue its better.

noclue119 05-03-2019 11:32 PM

I might add, 11/16 valves can leak if you over tighten the valve retaining screw. It was a common problem I saw working on empire snipers and some other cockers

fossilhead 05-04-2019 04:09 AM

Begs the question.
If it was easier... and there's no difference?

I'm betting there is a difference.
The 9/16 is designed for anti-siphon co2 and the 11/16 is compressed air only.

Keep in mind...
We are dealing with an old crossman/sheridan design with a 9/16.

Co2 is the thing!


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