mcarterbrown.com

mcarterbrown.com (https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/)
-   3D Printing (https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/3d-printing/)
-   -   PGP2 Replacement Parts (https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/3d-printing/319942-pgp2-replacement-parts.html)

JonM 04-04-2019 01:29 PM

PGP2 Replacement Parts
 
Project Recap:

Current Progress

Primary Setup
https://i.imgur.com/lkI4FUGl.jpg

Optional "Ray Gun" Setup
https://i.imgur.com/Xmrxeg0l.jpg

STL Links:

Rover Lead 04-04-2019 02:17 PM

Sweet!

netsurferdude2 04-04-2019 02:18 PM

Jon, one cool thing that could be added easily is a hole for a threaded insert so you could press in an insert and use a threaded shotgun bead sight.

JonM 04-04-2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netsurferdude2 (Post 3574037)
Jon, one cool thing that could be added easily is a hole for a threaded insert so you could press in an insert and use a threaded shotgun bead sight.

Not a bad idea. I should be able to design a second version for a bead sight easily enough.

NONOBLITUS 04-04-2019 03:40 PM

Jumping on this thread

binson 04-04-2019 04:45 PM

subbing this thread.

also there was this thread about some replacement parts for the pgp2k
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/...eed-gates.html

JonM 04-04-2019 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by binson (Post 3574078)
subbing this thread.

also there was this thread about some replacement parts for the pgp2k
https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/...eed-gates.html

Nice. That's along the lines of what I had in mind for the speed feed too. I'd like to incorporate the pin to secure the feed into the top slot if I can too. Between that and this front cap, I should be set if anything should happen to my PGP.

JonM 04-04-2019 09:22 PM

Update: I tweaked the design a bit farther tonight and I'd say that the design works perfectly except for one part. The front cap fits the top tube like a glove - better than stock even. However, when I went to remove the cap to put the original back on, it broke. Then again, I was able to snap the part by hand which means that my filament likely needs to be dried out. So, I'm going to put my spool in the dehydrator and try again tomorrow. Despite the breakage, I'd say that this thing is in a state fit for posting. I've uploaded it to Thingiverse for anyone who wants to try it out. If you do, please provide me with feedback.

Update 2: I also started work on the speed feed. It's still in very rough shape and it's not yet ready for printing, but here's a preview.

JonM 04-05-2019 01:08 AM

I was able to pull off a half decent print this evening. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for proof of concept. This roll of filament has been sitting in my basement unused all winter, so I'll probably want to pick up a fresh roll for the final print. In any case, it fits perfectly. Unlike the original, there is zero play in the cap whatsoever. I also shortened the front sight in this version - it lines up perfectly with the stock rear sights. I'm really pleased with how well this worked out. I'll be testing this out at the click clack bloop game on Saturday. Photos of the gun and the front cap have been added to the OP.

JonM 04-07-2019 03:51 PM

I got to test out my front cap at the click clack bloop game this past weekend. I learned quite a lot that day in my testing. First off, the front cap worked flawlessly. At this point, I'd say that that part of the project is complete.

However, the most important piece of information I learned is just how much I absolutely hate the stock PGP2 feed. Not only are these things notoriously fragile, they don't feed balls into the breech worth a damn. On more than one occasion, I was eliminated simply because I could not fire back. There's something to be said about the old plugs. So, I'm probably going to scrap my original speed feed idea since I found a much more reliable system. This plug requires no locking screw, no Dremel to cut a groove - just two o-rings. I went with two o-rings more for redundancy than anything. The plug works with only one, but if it tears, you'd be SOL.

My first test fit was perfect except for one critical flaw. Since this is a 3D printed part, a lot of stress will be placed along layer lines as you insert it and remove it. I eventually had to dig it out of the feed tube after it broke off. My latest version uses a washer on each end, a nut and a bolt running through the plug to prevent it from separating. The plug's face was shortened by 5 mm to make room for the washer and the bolt. The knurling I added to the end looks very similar to the knurling on the PGP2's 12-gram plug and the bolt. So, it actually looks like it belongs on the gun. I have the second prototype on the printer right now. I'm printing it solid to try and avoid any further separation issues. With any luck, I should be ready to test it in a few hours.

https://i.imgur.com/o100yQVm.jpg

Click Here for a 3D preview.

JonM 04-07-2019 07:04 PM

Updated photos in OP.

I've completed the updated feed plug. Overall, I'm very happy with how it turned out. The cap has the reinforcement bolt installed and two #015 o-rings. Initial testing resulted in zero misfeeds. I'll want to see how long the o-rings stay intact, but o-rings are cheap. If they prove to be more problematic than they're worth, It shouldn't be too hard to add a more traditional peg.

Edit: After some testing in the back yard, I tweaked the feed cap just a bit by extending the face by 2 mm and deepening the recess for the washer and nut in the back by 2 mm. Now the gun feeds even when tilted near vertically and the end of the bolt is below the surface of the rear side. Visually the second and third versions are nearly identical, but this small change makes feeding nearly foolproof. I'll call this project done for now.

JonM 04-08-2019 01:12 PM

The feed plug has been uploaded to Thingiverse.

JonM 04-10-2019 11:34 PM

I decided to make a couple more refinements to my feed plug just to make it look a bit cleaner. I decided to get rid of the screw I used before and replace it with a carriage bolt. This gives the face a much smoother look and it's a lot stronger too. I also designed a back cap to hide the nut on the back side. It's too late tonight to bust out the Dremel, but once the bolt is cut to size, the back cap should be a press fit. The new o-rings came in too. I'm really liking the red and black theme going on here.

Best of all, I cracked open my very first roll of eSun PETG. This stuff printed flawlessly. I think what really helped was that my old stock PTFE tube had a very low melting point that didn't get along very well with the temperature I had to print this at (245 C). My new Capricorn tubing has a much higher melting point and it was unfazed by the higher temps. I should be able to button this up either tomorrow morning before work or after I get home. I'll also be re-printing the front cap in PETG to reap the benefits of the stronger material. Even though PETG is stronger than PLA, I'm still going to stick with the stainless bolt just to be safe. I can't have this part cracking off inside the feed tube in the middle of a game.

Now for some eye candy.

Updated 3D model: https://a360.co/2P4cYfl

https://i.imgur.com/v7oqWqnl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GCfiVEel.jpg

Back Cap
https://i.imgur.com/xp9StKQl.jpg

JonM 04-14-2019 06:10 PM

I designed and printed the final piece to my PGP2 project. With my feed cap, plug and Cocker frame adapter all reprinted in PETG, I created a replacement sight rail that snaps on without any permanent modification to the PGP2. This sight rail is perfectly centered by using the slot for the speed feed as an anchor point. Once snapped into place, the sight does not move.

As usual, the model has been uploaded to Thingiverse.
https://i.imgur.com/xHcA8Sfh.jpg]

https://i.imgur.com/zawwpQ6h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QQP5O0Fh.jpg

Slappadapink 04-14-2019 08:03 PM

Well done, looks like it came out great

JonM 04-14-2019 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappadapink (Post 3577099)
Well done, looks like it came out great

Thanks! I really couldn't be happier with it. These parts replaced stock parts that were still intact, yet I like these a lot more.

JonM 04-17-2019 12:40 AM

Just for fun, I've decided to try my hand at a custom pump handle for this project. The challenge is going to be those 10-32 threads. I stopped at Lowes today to see if they have any threaded inserts, but they didn't have what I needed. I may try adding a hidden groove for a nut and grinding down the excess. I see a few good options for inserts online.

The 3D model can be seen here: https://a360.co/2PfLvY1

https://i.imgur.com/YRj5cCr.jpg?2

JonM 04-18-2019 02:20 AM

The 3D printed pump handle worked! I still want to tweak a few small things, but it works! Updated photo in OP. :clapping:

Spider! 04-18-2019 11:06 AM

What did you end up doing with the 10-32 threads?

JonM 04-18-2019 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider! (Post 3578304)
What did you end up doing with the 10-32 threads?

I'm still waiting for the brass inserts to arrive. So, I actually modeled 10-32 threads in Fusion 360. Surprisingly the pump rod threaded right in without issue. They seem to be holding tight too. I'll still put out a version for inserts since I think they'll hold up better over time. But, for those who don't want to bother with that, this design actually seems to work. I can't say how long the threads will hold up, but they seem good for the time being.

I've also tweaked a few dimensions on the original model. The pump handle has a bit more drag on the body than I'd like, so I increased the inner diameter by 1 mm. I also lengthened the top of the handle a bit to close the gap at the barrel. The threaded hole was a bit close to the body too, so I moved it left by 1 mm. Lastly, I took these changes and created another version with 1 mm knurling instead of 2 mm knurling. This last part was based on input from my son who thought that the 2 mm knurling was a bit too rough on his hands. It's a personal preference thing though, so I'll end up releasing both versions.

Here's a comparison of the old knurling to the new:
https://i.imgur.com/yigix7y.gifv

Rainmaker 04-18-2019 11:38 AM

That knurling looks awesome, nice work Jon! And thanks for sharing!

JonM 04-18-2019 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainmaker (Post 3578318)
That knurling looks awesome, nice work Jon! And thanks for sharing!

Thanks! Creating knurling in Fusion 360 is surprisingly easy. All you really need to do is create a 1 to 2 mm triangular cut coil with one rotation. Take the new faces created by the coil and mirror them on the Z plane. Once you have your mirrored faces, select all of the coil faces and create a circular pattern. Increase the number of copies in the pattern until you get the result you want. Just be sure your computer is up to snuff since this process is very taxing on lower end systems.

Spider! 04-18-2019 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainmaker (Post 3578318)
That knurling looks awesome, nice work Jon! And thanks for sharing!

Same, but I guess I would need to see how it feels. I was thinking you can print whatever you want for a knurling pattern, like little Italian Keebler elves. :rolleyes:

I've found you can get away with some less reinforced pump rod anchoring if the action is smooth and you are light on your normal playing stroke. I have some friends that really hammer away on a pump handle and destroy the first weak point (sometimes the hammer lug/body interface). I'm a lot lighter and have a walnut pump handle that is simply threaded with a tap and lives on an open class pump that has seen it's share of paint.

JonM 04-18-2019 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spider! (Post 3578328)
Same, but I guess I would need to see how it feels. I was thinking you can print whatever you want for a knurling pattern, like little Italian Keebler elves. :rolleyes:

I've found you can get away with some less reinforced pump rod anchoring if the action is smooth and you are light on your normal playing stroke. I have some friends that really hammer away on a pump handle and destroy the first weak point (sometimes the hammer lug/body interface). I'm a lot lighter and have a walnut pump handle that is simply threaded with a tap and lives on an open class pump that has seen it's share of paint.

If you're wearing gloves, the original knurling has really good grip, but I can see how it could feel like a cheese grater after a while if you play with bare hands. The 1 mm knurling is more like the knurling on my new feed plug. It provides a decent grip, but it doesn't dig in as much.

As for the insert vs. no insert deal, my biggest concern with 3D printed threads is that you have to turn and bend the pump rod every time you want to pull the bolt. Over time, I'm thinking that may eat away at the printed threads. I guess this isn't a big deal if you have your own printer, but if someone is printing these for others, I could see where that could potentially be an issue.

JonM 04-19-2019 08:18 AM

I completed version 2 last night. The pump stroke is much smoother now and the knurling is a lot more comfortable to hold. I'm happy to say that this version is done. The next version will have the threaded brass inserts. But, if anyone wants one and they don't care about the insert, this version is ready for printing. The model is available on Thingiverse.

https://i.imgur.com/X9gLMHuh.jpg

NONOBLITUS 04-19-2019 12:01 PM

This is coming out awesome

JonM 04-19-2019 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NONOBLITUS (Post 3578680)
This is coming out awesome

Thanks! I'm having fun with this project too. I'm not looking to make any money off of it either. My goal was to fix the issues with the original PGP2 design and to design parts to keep these old brass guns out on the field. I expect that there are plenty of PGP2s out there that have been sidelined with broken speed feeds and lost feed caps. That's why I'm releasing all of the STL files for free. Anyone with access to a 3D printer can get replacement parts without resorting to eBay or scouring BST posts hoping to find what they need.

blueshifty 04-19-2019 03:21 PM

That knurling printed awesome. Great job. :thumbup:

JonM 04-19-2019 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueshifty (Post 3578756)
That knurling printed awesome. Great job. :thumbup:

Thanks!

I'm bored at work and I drew up something else just for the fun of it. Now I'm just getting silly. :D

https://i.imgur.com/V8AI4ICm.png

Allerstern 04-19-2019 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 3578758)
Thanks!

I'm bored at work and I drew up something else just for the fun of it. Now I'm just getting silly. :D

https://i.imgur.com/V8AI4ICh.png

I like this....

JonM 04-19-2019 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allerstern (Post 3578773)
I like this....

If you like that, be ready for even higher levels of stupidity. I really have too much time on my hands today...

Anyone who is familiar with Flounder's blunderbuss will know where my head is at here.

https://i.imgur.com/FqPAB51m.png

Third of Five 04-19-2019 05:22 PM

Dang, that there is some nice fixin's! Can you modify the snap-on rear sight to fit a standard PGP with standard magazine plug? I hate the last gen version cartridge valve models without rear sights...

JonM 04-19-2019 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Third of Five (Post 3578786)
Dang, that there is some nice fixin's! Can you modify the snap-on rear sight to fit a standard PGP with standard magazine plug? I hate the last gen version cartridge valve models without rear sights...

I can take a stab at it. My son has a PGP that I can use as a reference.

Spider! 04-19-2019 07:12 PM

If I put a door breacher muzzle on my PMI-1, will it be milsim?

JonM 04-20-2019 04:02 PM

Okay, so boredom aside, I decided to try printing that barrel tip. On paper, it seems okay, but it's too weak in reality. So, I came up with something a bit more conventional in paintball. I've designed and printed a ported barrel tip for the PGP2. It's a friction fit and requires no permanent modification to the marker. Surprisingly, it turned out pretty nice. I think it gives the gun a pretty cool sci-fi look too.

As usual, the model is available on Thingiverse.

https://i.imgur.com/LhuI9rXh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0VtCBvzh.jpg

JonM 04-21-2019 09:28 PM

Just for fun, I decided to do something a little different. I thought that this thing was starting to look more and more like a 1950's ray gun. So, I took it one step farther. :D

Thingiverse link

https://i.imgur.com/Xmrxeg0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/560pVKVh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ujPIbI4h.jpg

JonM 04-24-2019 07:04 PM

Since my last update, I learned a few things about my pump handle design. First, print solid. In working with each of my previous handles, they all snapped in front of the pump arm when twisting it out of the way to pull the bolt. I printed the first failure with a 30% infill and the second at 50%. The layer lines were fine with forward and back, but side to side was weak. This version was printed with bottom layers set to 9999. Second, when installing a brass insert, index the threads to the gun before melting it into place. There's too much slop in a PGP pump arm unless it's screwed in all the way. I also found that when switching from printed threads to an insert, that there was more slop in the dimensions than I originally realized without the insert. So, All of the tolerances have been dialed in, lessons have been learned and sixteen hours after clicking "print", I have a solid, correctly sized and properly indexed pump handle. DONE! (for now...)

https://i.imgur.com/bgIErKwh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/53kSoZqh.jpg

Allerstern 04-24-2019 08:25 PM

Happen to know if those pumps have the clearance for a Kframe?

JonM 04-24-2019 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allerstern (Post 3580237)
Happen to know if those pumps have the clearance for a Kframe?

I used the stock PGP handle as a size reference, so they're exactly the same. I'd guess they would be.

This was a fun project, but these things take forever to print.

lordkyleofearth 04-25-2019 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 3580247)
I used the stock PGP handle as a size reference, so they're exactly the same. I'd guess they would be.

This was a fun project, but these things take forever to print.

Have you looked into getting a bigger nozzle?


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC