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-   -   Lighter trigger? Return spring? (https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/cci/323077-lighter-trigger-return-spring.html)

NotBrian 07-27-2019 09:11 PM

Lighter trigger? Return spring?
 
Honestly the Phantom gets used less and less because the trigger is a stinker compared to a Sniper or Sterling and the pump stroke is TOUGH.

Not sure what can be done with the trigger-sear-hammer engagement.

Does anyone know what springs I can use to make my trigger return lighter? A lighter spring greatly improved my Sterling and my thinking is it'll do some good on a Phantom because it's a similar in that area.

Also - is there a lighter return spring I can use for the pump part? I'm fine with pulling forward - just need something heavy enough to keep from chambering incidentally while moving.

TVA 07-27-2019 10:57 PM

What’s your setup? A dual rod undercocking kit with only one return spring in, along with a brass pump rod shim will drastically smooth out the pump stroke. As far as the trigger goes you can polish the sear and top of the trigger plate, but the difference is minimal. If you’re using the stock silver main spring and your TPC is near the front of the adjustment, you can swap to a lighter main (blue) and crank the TPC in just enough to get to velocity. If you can’t get to velocity with the blue spring you’d have to lighten the valve spring. Springing the gun as light as possible will improve the trigger weight, but may cost you a bit of efficiency

NotBrian 07-28-2019 10:13 AM

Dual rod kit with one return spring
cleaned and very lightly polished the silver bits on the trigger path
blue/silver hammer spring depending on paint/weather

Reason I'm attacking the trigger return spring is that it's harder to pull the Phantom trigger uncocked than it is to pull my other guns cocked

atomicleaf 07-28-2019 08:29 PM

Question for OP: what are you trying to do with your phantom, open class or stock class?

The pump stroke will smoothen with usage. The key is to use a *light* amount of oil and to clean it after each use. This will allow for a natural break in of the metal parts, while also clearing out the debris that form in the gun as part of that break in process. You might look into "Outlast." Many people swear by this stuff, and I myself was shocked at how much better is was than gold cup oil, in terms of not evaporating, not developing the gunk, and staying slick.

CCI's dual rod undercocking kit is great, but I still think the best pump stroke is with the plain pump handle that goes over the barrel. The key with smoothness is avoiding binding - I recommend keeping the return spring on the pump rod because it seems to help keep everything in line. Another key here is to pick up one of the pump rod shims. This takes a ton of the play out of the pump handle, which again, helps prevent binding.

As far as the trigger is concerned, I know there are some people who've done mods but IMO it's not necessary and here's why. The reason why I asked that question at the beginning is I've tried every conceivable configuration with my phantom, which I've used in games against a mix of everything from rentals to high-end electros. At least 90% of the time, I find myself falling back to the same strategy no matter what setup I'm using: taking it one shot at a time using lots of snap shots and focusing on positioning. The difference between 1bps vs 2bps when going against mechs and electros is negligible and usually my efforts are better spent concealing my position or moving to a new position rather then trying to fit in another shot before the tornado of returning fire is hurled my way. You will never win a gun fight with a phantom.

So in my perspective, all roads lead back to stock class because you don't really gain that much in terms of firepower with an open class phantom. Once you embrace stock class, these negatives of the phantom don't really matter as much (but def do the things I mentioned and pump stroke will improve). Running stock class with a phantom plays to this gun's strengths, that is light weight, mobility, and some would say accuracy (mostly due to ergonomic factors).

So I would say if you want to shoot fast or shoot a lot of paint in one session, go with your cocker or sterling. In my opinion I don't really see the point in trying to shoot a pump real fast so I would prefer to just go to a mech gun, but to each his own. If you want light weight and the challenge/thrill of stock class, play your phantom - your pump stroke will get a lot better over time.

Grendel 07-29-2019 08:54 AM

Yes you can modify the trigger assembly to "improve" trigger pull and this has nothing to do with pump kits/lubrication of bolt assembly...etc.
  • Play with your Phantom, the more you play the more the spring relaxes and mating surfaces wear in but I understand sometimes I can not wait for that to happen.
  • There is someone on here who came up with a replacement trigger with bearing to help stabilize and smooth the trigger action. Not tried it but I've thought about doing the same thing myself
  • You can replace the return spring on your trigger with a lighter weight spring (I do not know of a Part # or anyone selling a kit) just go to a GOOD hardware store and check out their springs. Be careful though there is a reason why Mike chose that spring and it is for reliability on the re-cock to ensure the sear sets properly.
  • you can polish the sear to trigger contact area. I've done so on every Phantom I've owned never was fully satisfied with the Phantoms trigger myself. Again be careful you can go too far and destroy the reliability.
  • Shim the trigger to improve stability, I have done so with thin nylon washers to keep the trigger from wobbling which improves feel
  • Find and RTR slider trigger and work this so that it closer matches your other triggers in style and function. There is someone else on here doing something similar to RTR but I have no experience with them or their product.

Your marker to do with as you wish, the Phantom is a great marker out of the box but that does not mean it is perfect. Reconfigure to fit you needs and style just accept what you are doing in the long run may be counter productive or not worth the time and effort.

frd333do33 07-29-2019 01:10 PM

For trigger, you can lighten the pull with this: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/...-triggers.html

For the pump stroke, you have to break it in. The Phantom doesn't wear out; it wears in.... like a good over/under shotgun.

Fred 07-29-2019 02:33 PM

Also check if you have the modern non-binding hammer and bolt assembly... the old ones can be rough, indeed. A couple drops of oil is helpful, too.

I never run a return spring with more strength than is needed to hold the bolt closed when the marker is at rest.


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