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What Is It? Even after cleaning off the dust.... Still don't know what you have? Let the knowledgeable old-timers help you out

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Old 03-24-2008, 09:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Old cocker... Belsales?

https://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...8/DSCN0215.jpg

It looks like a 97 or earlier to my untrained eye... What's the year and make, and what's it worth?

In a different pic, shroud off, it's obviously a Mini. Non-original pneumatics (Jackhammer 2, chrome Hollowpoint, black Eclipse .44), non-original block, but original block is included.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Definitely not a Belsales. Looks a lot like an Eclipse job, but can't tell for sure. Still a nice 95-97ish example of a high-end cocker.

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Old 04-10-2008, 12:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Definitely not a Belsales...
I concur; 100%.
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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looks like a old bob long milling pattern and anno, oddly enough it points to 2 timeframes. the sqare back block makes it a 94 or older, the mini body points to a 96 or later. It could be a 94 body that was mini'ed post 96. this piece is something of an enigma... pointing to custom work done at one or more times after it left the factory.
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Old 04-10-2008, 01:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Im going with what mongoose has pointed out
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Eclipse anno on a Belsales body something they did quite a lot in the early days. Eclipse use to be a pimping out house, anno and minor cosmetic milling was there thing just about any gun of the time could be done by them.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah, seemed to be an afterthought on the mini job... that original block was freshly tapped for the mini ASA, obviously, as the tapping is raw.

This gun still makes me curious, as a guy on SpecOps is trying to ditch it.
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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belsales angry 45 frame w/ matching period anno..? The hump back certainly looks like the lines on an angry 45.
early belsales pull pin?
early smartparts venturi bolt?

all pretty "Belsey" even the shocktech cocking rod -- (understandable, in you consider early belsales used a lot of stock stuff.)

97 or earlier body
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Actually, I bet that's not a "hump back" Angry frame. It has the DYE II/III stickies (Can't remember which model) that has the grip material on the back of the frame as well (full wrap around). I had a set at one time.

Pull pin is defenitely Belsales style, but the bolt looks more Eclipsish than anything. Square backblocks were standard prior to 1997, as was the squared body including 1997 models. Minis came out in 1994 (?) with cut backblocks, but they were considered aftermarket for standards.

My $.02 is that is is probably a 1995-1996 body that has been kissed by the Eclipse factory for minor milling, accessory upgrades (bolt, pin, cocking rod, frame, etc), a mini-chop, and a splash anodizing job consistent with top-end cockers of that time.

I've also seen milling very similar to that if not exactly like that on Eclipse Cockers. I have a photo around here somewhere, but I haven't had luck uploading pictures recently.

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Old 04-11-2008, 01:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I agree but disagree with the above 2 posts. The bolt and cocking rod do not appear to be consistent with a mid-nineties cocker. prior to 96 having a 45 frame at all was a luxury, in 96-97 "humpback" frames made it in a big way then faded out. I do not think that is a humpback frame, mostly because there is a dye sticky 03 grip on it, and that grip would not fit a humpback at all. On the assumption that the original cocking rod is floating there below the marker, I'd venture a guess that it has nothing to do with besales as that isnt a besales cocking rod. There are a few things here that could swing the date in a big way. Is the threads under the ball detent annoed? If so, the marker is older than it would seem, pointing to mid to late nineties. Is the triggerplate a pre 97? theres one telltale date to work from there, I am assuming so.

If I am right about the trigger plate predating 97 (it should be as its a square back block, it should be at least a 96 or older) and the anno predating the custom mods (the ball detente) the anno pattern and milling would be consistent with a 94-95 bob long style, predating the humpbacks. I am also guessing that the anno predated the mini conversion, seeing as the front block was modified after the anno. I say bob long as he was the only person in that time frame that used sponge patterns heavially in his anno jobs, and that style of milling is unique to him. eclipse, besales(we say besales but really we mean smart parts USA), and taso all had very different milling patterns and anno patterns in that timeframe.
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