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    Which pump?

    Before i even ask this question i know that it is personal preference and that it has likely been asked 9 million times but i wanna ask again so na na billy goat

    I currently have a couple of paintball guns and think i can gain access to more from you nice people. With that in mind i currently run a T2 marker for my pump paintball gun. My friend has used my gun once or twice and likes the limited amount of paint that it uses versus his electro Axe if that matters. He would like to get a pump paintball marker i am thinking of building one for him. I have a trilogy body, a couple piranhas 1 electro trigger and 1 mech, a ICD puma or 2, maybe a sheridian (see pic below), an X valve automag, a 2K+ autococker body and a pre 2k body. There is even a pump ion that i saw on BST.

    With all of that stated i was wondering if anyone might have an opinion on which one makes a better pump? The spyder, Automag, Autococker, Puma, Sheridian or Ion?

    Ease of conversion i would imagine the autocockers trilogy included are top since you can get a kits for them. Ion being done already makes it even "easier". The spyder / piranha requires machining and i have no clue on the automag, puma, or sheridian. Any thoughts would be welcome.

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    #2
    Cocker (trilogy). I'll even be specific to the 2k cocker as the pump kits are easier to get. Take off cocker front block, put on main pump rod that goes in the same place, slide on pump handle, thread back block onto pump rod. Easy to find cocker barrels as well, as you'll need a smaller bore barrel/insert to avoid rollouts.

    And I'll openly admit I'm biased towards cocker pumps. Have multiple, currently building one at the moment (internal arrive on Thursday!). I've got a breakdown on cocker pump kits currently under way in the pump section if you want to see mores specifics and the varieties of pump kits. I cover installing the kits as well and it's pretty simple.
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      #3
      Cocker pump or phantom is the way.

      Comment


        #4
        This is a great question.

        I really think a cocker pump is really hard to beat in terms of maintenance, pump stroke, and shot quality. They may feel a bit large and bulkey for some, but they are modular. And closed bolt. Use the most commonly threaded barrel to market, and are the most upgradable of the bunch.

        my personal favorite is a sheridan. With a 45 frame especially. The pump stroke is a bit harder, and it is 2 staged so you have a free stroke where you are only moving the bolt. Then you engage the hammer mid stroke causing a change in tension as you load the hammer. Its not for everyone. But imo sheridans point extremely well, its one of the few markers I can get good first shot accuracy at long range.

        The ion pump, and mag pumps shoot well, and due to their operation have a super tiny and smooth pump stroke. To me, I dont like that tiny bump of a pump. I wanna rack my shooter like a 12 gage. These are just too easy to actuate. Another con is they are open bolt. Which arguably doesnt effect shot quality, but I like being able to close the bolt, and or purposly double load a ball ocassionally. You cant do that with these shooters. The ion is super quiet as well. But neither have drawn any of my attention

        Spyder pumps feep a lot like a cocker if done right, but imo parts are harder to find.

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah, I'd say he'd be best to give a Phantom a try, they're nice, modular, and easy to resell if he doesn't like how they point or feel. Cocker would be a good second. If you're doing a spyder pump, get one of the Azodin's cheap, they're good for what they are, and the price.

          Comment


            #6
            I'll echo the chorus of build a pump cocker. I love my azodin but it was a bit more touchy to get dialed in than a cocker would be. And aftermarket parts overload on the cocker platform, unlimited customization options. Bonus is you can slap on a front block and now have a mech cocker.

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              #7
              If this is your friend's first pump then I think you should go with something he can readily fix & buy parts for, not something you have to machine/heavily modify. If he likes your T2 then anything 2K+ cocker-based would be a good option. I've heard good things about the Azodin KPs, so that's an option as well if you want to just buy a whole marker. And remember- the Trilogy is 2K+ spec. They only real difference is the valve is 11/16 inch instead of 9/16 inch, which you shouldn't need to mess with anyway. Just make sure you get a Trilogy-specific pump kit.
              If he likes that stacked-tube setup then stick with it. Learning pump has enough of a learning curve as it is.

              I personally do NOT suggest a Phantom, as they feel distinctly different than anything cocker-based and have a very crunchy pump stroke, even compared to other Nelson-based pumps. You could pick up a dual rod undercocking kit to help mitigate that, but that just adds to the price tag. Most Nelsons that have the dual side-cocking pump arms are going to have a better pump stroke than a factory Phantom. If he wants to try something Nelson-based I suggest a PMI Trracer. I believe you can fit a Phantom 45* trigger frame handle to it so you can run a bottomline if backbottle is an issue.
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                #8
                I love Phantoms, but I'm with glaman5266 here. Phantoms have a steep learning curve whereas cocker pumps feel far closer to other guns that your friend is likely more comfortable using. Cocker pumps are fairly easy to set up and tune and there are tons of parts available for them.
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                Comment


                • Chuck E Ducky

                  Chuck E Ducky

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It depends how you aim. I don’t remember them being that hard to learn. I use the barrel outside edge to aim so everything shoots the same for me. I also need a long barrel and a stock to shoulder. It may be perception but I find I get the most “holly crap I can’t believe I just hit that guy moments” with my Phantom.

                • Jonnydread

                  Jonnydread

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Chuck E Ducky I don't think it's necessarily how one aims, I think it's more of the general feel and the stiffer pump action of the Phantom. Most of the people I have converted into pump players struggled with a Phantom at first, but had no issue with a cocker-based pump, so I generally recommend that route first to dip the toes into the play style. Totally agree on the "I cant believe I hit that guy moments", I have threaded many a needle with my Phantom.

                • Chuck E Ducky

                  Chuck E Ducky

                  commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I can see that pump stroke is stiff compared to a lot of other pumps. It’s versatility more them makes up for it tho. If I got rid of my entire collection the one marker I would keep would be my Phantom it’s so versatile with its modular design.

                #9
                Biased input, stack tube is the way to go and the easiest and cheapest to setup would be a basic 2K Sniper II whether you buy a Sniper II or convert an Autococker. This will give you an easy to maintain and learn on platform with unmatchable ability to grow with the player. My 2nd most trusted marker is a 2K Sniper II, I bought new in mid 2000. I have done very little to it after its first "build" (CCM Deluxe Pump Kit, RAT Valve, ANS Quickfire, Belsales Charger Bolt and custom anodization) early on (sometime in 2001). The only "maintenance" is a few years ago I replaced the Valve with a stock WGP and dumped the ANS Regulator for an AKA Sidewinder. This marker is one of the 2 markers that always goes with me because it just works and feels right.
                "When you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, 'Certainly I can!' Then get busy and find out how to do it." - Theodore Roosevelt

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                Comment


                  #10
                  I would just look for a cocker pump that’s been converted already. You can find them in the $250 range easy and just change what you don’t like about it. You can get 90% of the CCM feel with a good pump kit and a spring swap.

                  Hell you could put a lower internal kit and a nice CCM pump kit on a 2k+ and it will shoot the same as a CCM performance wise. For an 1/8th the price.

                  Comment


                  • Grendel

                    Grendel

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Very true!

                  #11
                  Am I alone in thinking that the term "cocker pump" is a bit of an oxymoron?
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                  • Chuck E Ducky

                    Chuck E Ducky

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    At the same time Cocker Pump takes the auto out of the equation. Your still cocking it.

                  • Cdn_Cuda

                    Cdn_Cuda

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Pump Cocker or Cocker pump. With the Milsim/gamer push a sniper to most is not a pump paintball gun.

                  • JonM

                    JonM

                    commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Get outta here with all your logic and reasoning. Cocker is a shortening of the word Autococker, which means the "auto" part is implied in the name. I refuse to call one anything but a Sniper. As for the milsim crowd, let 'em be confused. WGP had the name first.

                  #12
                  IMO cocker pump if you are intending to play open class, phantom if you are intending to play stock class. Both are closed bolt, reliable, and will last you forever and have great resale value.

                  For open class the phantom is not going to compare to a kitted out cocker pump in terms of pump stroke, autotrigger speed, sound profile, etc.

                  For stock class you can tune and upgrade the cocker pump all day, it's still not going to compare to the 12g efficiency a phantom gets out of the box.

                  Comment


                    #13
                    I'm stumped...

                    Why would anyone try to pick just ONE pump?

                    I have a Sniper and five or six nelsons. My next trick will be getting a cheap old Spyder and turning it into a pump.
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                    • Chuck E Ducky

                      Chuck E Ducky

                      commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Nelson’s are the herpes of the paintball world. They are like an invasive species. You can’t just have one.
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