Converting a shoot-to-pierce to instapierce?

[Jordan]

I have my KP stripped down waiting for parts to show up and started thinking about what it might take to convert it.

I thought modifying the chamber plug to accept a CCI pierce pin assembly should work, and I think Mad Customs did it already, but has anyone actually done/used an instapierce setup?

Pros/cons to using one vs. the other?

[Toestr]

I've never used either but it occurs to me that if you have balls in the tube you'll be loading one in for the piercing shot and your next shot will be a double feed? That is unless the first ball bloops out of the barrel upon pierce.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[Jordan]

Exactly, I want to avoid that.

[Tinybear]

Not end of the world. Just need to remember to hold the marker upside down for the piercing shot.

Granted I don’t play stock class offten, ok almost never. But not been an issue with my PGP2k.

Only see it being an issue if you decide to run spring fed.

[Jordan]

Thinking of doing a springfeed at some point... so we'll see.

[Ecapnation]

All of my 12 gram palmers were instapierce.... No click boop

[Axel]

Here's an archive of MadCustoms Marketplace. Matt's photos are gone, but RuleOfSines has a couple good ones in post #2.

[Rusty Brass]

I've installed a couple of insta-pierces but pulled them because I couldn't get the face seals to stop leaking. They live in my parts box now.

[Jordan]

What sort of instapierce setup was it?

[Rusty Brass]

Both are MadCustoms parts. I think the problem is just that the Phantom face seals are so hard that the amount of torque you'd have to put on the 12ie screw/plug is more than Sheridan ever planned for. I tried them with the stock plug, extended, and a Palmer's fast changer - always leaked from the face seal.
I assume other people can make it work? Maybe? Just never happened for me.

[Jordan]

Interested in selling one to me? I'd like to try one but I'm hesitant to modify my chamber plug, I doubt I'll find a replacement if the mod doesn't work.

[RuleOfSines]

Biggest downside I ran into, you're more likely to experience stuck 12 grams if you don't leave a bit of air to poof them out.

[Jordan]

Probably going to do a dropout cut, so that should cover that possibility.

[Spider!]

I've only worked on and tested an insta-pierce. I have one StP and a few bucket changers.

As noted already, the insta-pierce pin is fat like a bucket changer. That means the hole is large and you can run into 12g face seal problems if the necks are not centered (some Crossmans have been really bad). I use Lelands on anything with a fat pin. A pro of the insta-pierce is that the springing has nothing to do with the piercing of the 12 gram.

My StP has stock springs. With a new-ish seal, it puts a nice, tiny hole in the cartridge face. When the velocity is turned down, I sometimes have to point down and shoot to get the gravity assist on the pierce. Otherwise, I sometimes forget it is StP and my first shot is slow, but maybe usable. As the seals get squashed down, they can start to narrow the center hole, restraining the pierce pin. I have a little pressure gauge on the side where the marker used to be constant air. That lets me know for sure what I'm doing (if I think about it ). The hammer weight, springs and seal condition all are part of that pierce cycle. There's not a lot of room for tinkering. A pro of the StP is that you can get a good seal on the 12g and even wait right before game-on to pierce. That means that getting the initial seal is not quite as difficult with a fast threaded changer.

Because Palmer's speed changers and CCI bucket changers have fast threads, they require more torque for a given amount of seal compression. To me, those threads have been a larger decision than StP or not. The stock Sheridan threads are too fine, but fast threads are almost too coarse for two fingers under the barrel.

Either way, you have to think of that 12g face seal as a working seal, not a static seal. They need to be kept fresh (I know that's pretty relative for urethane). I try to reduce twisting of the cartridge on the seal whenever possible (I have ball bearings in two different setups). A problem I still have is to remember to slowly let-down a mostly full cartridge. The gas gets behind the seal to push it out, and the ice attaches between the 12g and the seal.

I think CCI makes their seals hard and small so that they will stay in the changer better. Pumps don't need that big hole in the 12g, and smaller holes help restrict the CO2 flow into the dump chamber. Given that it is a bucket changer where you can easily put a new seal in, I prefer a thicker, softer seal that seals more easily. I've been trying this out for a while now and really like it. I've lost three seals in the last year; every one was at the end of the day when I dumped a full 12g. I get home and discover it while cleaning up. Got to work on my technique.

[BenoitOWN]

It might not work but explore what the tipx did as actuated by trigger?

[k_obeastly]

I've never used either but it occurs to me that if you have balls in the tube you'll be loading one in for the piercing shot and your next shot will be a double feed? That is unless the first ball bloops out of the barrel upon pierce.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

turn the gun upside down

[Jordan]

turn the gun upside down

Unless, you're running a springfeed...

[XEMON]

On the spring feed, I usually pull and lock the spring when I pierce the 12g ...