All kinds of PGP problems

[ChoSanJuan]

Ok, where do it start... I got a bag o parts fr a friend last week and got it all put together. Super polished it and it was all ready to go with buying new seals. I ordered the 2 different sets of orings (now I'm set for a few lifetimes of owning this Peeg...), put in some springs to add the 1/4" BBs, and replaced the 12g face seal. Made my own valve tool today and reassembled everything with a little disappointment. Shoot to pierce takes like 5+ shots and when it happens, I get 1 "good" shot with variable leaking from the frame and barrel.



So common sense with barrel leak for most guns means a bad interface with the cup seal. I'm not too worried about that part. More worried about the leaking everywhere else. I've looked at all kinds of videos and how to service non-cartridge valves but nothing seems to work right. Yes, I've tried both the original frame and the Cocker slider frame. Both do the same thing with having to shoot it multiple times to get it to pierce.

How many turns does it take to get the valve nut to seat the valve properly? I feel like I might not be cranking it down enough to get the seals to crush properly.

I throw myself at the feet of the brass gods to help me get this shiny beauty shooting.

[XEMON]

Ok, where to start ...

The shoot to pierce:
This could be caused by a full or too short pierce pin (or too thick seal)
Can you put a picture of the tip of the pin and a picture of the 12g tip after the first attempt and once it's pierced?

The frame leak, is it from towards the front or the back?
This will change things quite a bit ...

For the valve nut, you can feel wether it's cross threading or seating, it doesn't feel the same ... And the valve body may still be loose if cross threaded ...

[JonM]

Just out of curiosity, which pierce pin did you install? Many of the pins I’ve gotten in the PPS rebuild kits have been out of spec, which results in the same issue.

[AnarchicArctic]

Check your pierce pin length for sure. Shorter pins can work, but you’ll need a softer valve spring to allow the further travel. I’ve made custom soft springs for mine out of whatever happened to be in my parts box.

Leaking from the barrel and frame: I’d double check you rebuilt the valve properly. A missing/misplaced oring can ruin your day.

The valve nut is pretty idiot proof. It can be a little tricky to line up the threads occasionally, but once you find them it turns till it doesn’t. No need to crank it down.

[Axel]

Reinstalling the valve nut- when you get everything aligned, push down for a little pressure with the tool and turn it backwards. You will feel when the thread leads slide off each other, then change direction
and then I've found that once you know you're not cross threaded you need to crank down pretty tightly to get the right compression to seal

My first PMI was a real bear with this issue, I thought I was gonna break it before it finally sealed up proper

[Myrkul]

This is exactly in line with my experiences.

[ChoSanJuan]

Ok, my 12g isn't getting pierced enough vs my Spydarm carts that come out of my bucket changer. This makes sense now. So the cup seal/pin combo is a stock one, from what I understand. It's kinda floppy but it's sharp.

The mainspring was chopped on one end. Takes forever to pierce till I put in a BB and then it gets better. Hits harder when I get another BB on the other end but it feels too strong for the bolt to handle when cocking.

Concerning the valve nut, it stops about a turn in. I'm a huge proponent of reverse spinning it to snap that first thread in then go forward. It doesn't go in very far. Again, asking how many turns does it take for it to crush the whole assembly together? Are my threads filled with too much junk?

[XEMON]

Ok, my 12g isn't getting pierced enough vs my Spydarm carts that come out of my bucket changer. This makes sense now. So the cup seal/pin combo is a stock one, from what I understand. It's kinda floppy but it's sharp.

The mainspring was chopped on one end. Takes forever to pierce till I put in a BB and then it gets better. Hits harder when I get another BB on the other end but it feels too strong for the bolt to handle when cocking.

The spring being cut down or worn would do it. Ive had some of those floppy ping got too short, does it look like it has been sharpened?

Concerning the valve nut, it stops about a turn in. I'm a huge proponent of reverse spinning it to snap that first thread in then go forward. It doesn't go in very far. Again, asking how many turns does it take for it to crush the whole assembly together? Are my threads filled with too much junk?

Noone give you an answer because there isnt really one ... every PGP is different, they were soldered by hand and the thread inside is not at teh exact same place in every PGP.
you can take the nut out and inspect the thread of the nut and teh threads inside the body to see damages and sign of cross threading.

[ChoSanJuan]

The spring being cut down or worn would do it. Ive had some of those floppy ping got too short, does it look like it has been sharpened?

Yeah, it looks like it was sharpened. The valve spring seems to strong for it to pierce deep enough. OK, we are getting closer!

Noone give you an answer because there isnt really one ... every PGP is different, they were soldered by hand and the thread inside is not at teh exact same place in every PGP.
you can take the nut out and inspect the thread of the nut and teh threads inside the body to see damages and sign of cross threading.

OK, fair answer. maybe I'll gently run a brass brush on the threads to see what's going on in there. I don't think there is cross threading.

[Myrkul]

One full turn seems short to me. I feel like something isn't right with that...

[XEMON]

Yeah, it looks like it was sharpened. The valve spring seems to strong for it to pierce deep enough. OK, we are getting closer!

I have some light valve spring (new springs I sourced for light spring and light hammer combo). That may help.

One full turn seems short to me. I feel like something isn't right with that...

Agreed, visual inspection of the threads should let you know if it starts to cross threaded ...

[ChoSanJuan]

So I'm thinking I'll order this https://palmerspursuit.com/collectio...alve-model-pgp instead of the full seal kit. (I've got seals out the wazoo already...) Other than the torque issue I've got with the valve, this should take away my piercing problem, right?

[AnarchicArctic]

I’ve ordered multiple dyna-valves from palmers, all were shorter than the stock pin. Not a problem as long as you also install a lighter valve spring to allow more travel

[ChoSanJuan]

OK, so I'll need a weaker valve spring too. I haven't ordered anything yet. finicky little beasts, aren't they? LOL

[XEMON]

I have light valve springs ... But there a tad too light, so I got some light hammer springs to go with them ...
Let me know if you need a set

[ChoSanJuan]

Great update! Did a tech session with a buddy that's deeply steeped in the bloop life. He took a look at the threads on the inside and said there was much more schmutz on there that could be getting in the way. Used his valve tool and ran my retainer lug in as far as he could. Essentially got in there to cut new threads. Says that there were chunks of the lead seal in it and it should be good now. Indeed it was! I threw it on the chrono and hit a blazing 230. Ended up playing 2 games with it against Mkeeks and it ran flawlessly! It was my retainer lug not going all the way in and sealing the parts together.

Thanks for all the help!