Ion Solenoid armature?

[Jordan]

Doc, I would love it if you started making armatures and would likely buy a lot of them. The Keion Doss armatures are in short supply and are not quite perfect. (The bottom seal needs to be trimmed in some cases).

I have found that the ion doesn't work great as a mech gun due to pronounced shoot-down.

However, there are still tons and tons of Ion parts out there, and the only part that keeps an ion from functioning as an electronic marker is the armature.

Shootdown? How fast are you trying to go?

[Sdawg]

Not very, but let's not get off topic. I would love to see Doc make ion armatures.

[uv_halo]

I ended up buying four Doss Armatures. The seller was super easy to work with and he shipped them quickly for a reasonable price.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the design. I tried two of them out and neither could seal the bottom of the solenoid. They are a different design. The factory and the the Doss design are very similar, if not identical in regards to the top: a simple dot of sealing/padding material in the center of the face. The bottom face, the most important part, which seals against the solenoid vent hole.could almost not be any more different.

I dissected an OEM model some time ago. The bottom seal is actually over-molded. The rod has a T-Profile at the end and the seal surrounds it. The Doss armature is bored out at the sealing end, and the sealing material is inside, and doesn't protrude at all. At best, it is flush with the lip that surrounds it. At least one of them, the sealing surface is below the edge of the lip. In my case, neither of them seal. And I don't mean a slow leak, the air rushes out the bottom of the solenoid.

I worry about the body of the armature digging into and wearing the interior bottom of the solenoid.






I really hope Doc gets to making some Armatures.

[DocsMachine]

I really hope Doc gets to making some Armatures.

-This sort of analysis is certainly helping! I still have these on the list, and I ordered some material to experiment with quite a while ago, I just have a ton on my plates already. Stand by, I'm goin' as fast as I can.

Doc.

[uv_halo]

I totally dissected one. If I can't find it, I will dissect another and post pictures and specs.

[uv_halo]

-This sort of analysis is certainly helping! I still have these on the list, and I ordered some material to experiment with quite a while ago, I just have a ton on my plates already. Stand by, I'm goin' as fast as I can.

Doc.

My apologies for coming across as criticizing your timeliness or progress! I only saw in the thread that you were considering doing this and took it as you were undecided.

For myself, a new armature has only two uses. One, is I would like to build a fully kitted out Ion/Epiphany in speedball style and sell it. I already know that I will put more money into it than I will receive so, it's a little of for the fun of the build. The other use is a little closer to me: My Woodstalker Ion, the most extensively modified gun I've ever had. I'll get some pics of it in the Collector's Corner soon. I have a working primary (My Dfender) which largely supplants the Ion so, this is purely for nostalgia.

So, there is no urgency. I will be happy if it takes you a couple YEARS, as long as it happens, and I won't be bitter if it doesn't happen because it's not like you and I have a business agreement. I will just have to explore other options, at my own glacial pace

[Sdawg]

I have had some problems with the Keion Doss armatures, but I recently helped him improve the design. I have built probably 30-40 ions with his armatures.

[uv_halo]

How do yours match the ones I included above?

[uv_halo]

-This sort of analysis is certainly helping! I still have these on the list, and I ordered some material to experiment with quite a while ago, I just have a ton on my plates already. Stand by, I'm goin' as fast as I can.

Doc.

As promised, here are my pics of the "dissected" solenoid along with my new old stock piece that is too sticky.










With my micrometer, the stripped armature measures:
Length: 0.6365"
O.D.: 0.1955"
Groove Width: is somewhere below 0.0315"
Flange (top of "T") width: 0.1380"
I.D. (hole at top end): 0.0615"
Hole Depth: ~0.1420"

Other relevant solenoid details: The Solenoid inlet, is a very small nipple facing the armature. I believe that the top of the armature is meant to at least restrict the flow if not shut it off. it technically doesn't need to seal since the the exhaust of the solenoid is what allows the bolt to move forward and dump the fire chamber. Therefore, I believe the material at the top of the armature is meant to just provide padding to protect the solenoid inlet. The Solenoid Exhaust (hole at bottom of solenoid body) is actually 'countersunk' meaning it is a wide hole that narrows towards the exterior. How wide, I can not exactly say, maybe 60% wider than the bottom end? Definitely smaller than the diameter of the pad.

[HiatusSmiatus]

Id definitely buy some if you end up making them. One thing I've thought about doing, but is far down the project list, is making a mold or press to just put new PU on the old ones. To make new ones, you'd have to have that set up anyway, and "refurbishing" the old ones would certainly be cheaper and easier. Plus, im sure the ion builders would be happy to trade in old ones for a discount or something on new ones.