Will it go Liquid? ....Different Paintball Guns on Liquid CO2

[Brokeass_baller]

...I hope the effect is delicious co2 clouds bursting from all parts of the gun when fired !

Ah, yes. The delicious scents of cold metal and burp.

[Brokeass_baller]

I remember reading about those as well. Essentially mechanical Mayhems. They did have a bottom line regulator. But I can't remember how velocity was controlled.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I think FROGs were closed bolt. So they must be more different from Automags than we remember.

[MrBarraclough]

I just remembered that there was indeed something that was like an unregulated Automag: the PGI F.R.O.G.

It was a blowforward with a spring return that regulated velocity by having an adjustable volume dump chamber, as I recall.

[Brokeass_baller]

I think the problem with Automags and CO2 lies in the on/off (on classic valves anyway). These o-rings shrink substantially when chilled.

But, I think you have an interesting point. Possibly create an adjustable choke for the dump chamber to control velocity, instead of a regulator. Kind of like a Tippmann. That might be cool.

[Meleager7]

The main issue is that the thermal cycling tends to cause wear on low-quality plastic parts. An infamous example of this is the Tippmann 98c. Up to the Model-98, Tippmann officially supported siphon tanks. They were an option from the factory, and recommended them. But by the late 90s, many guns were becoming popular that would be damaged if a siphon was accidentally used, so they decided to end all support for siphons. The Model-98 was redesigned as the 98-Custom and used a weaker plastic power-tube. People being people used siphons anyway, and those power tubes cracked.

When I saw this metal power tube from Trinity , it made me think of your post . Now a liquid 98 Custom can finally be born from icy cold depths!

https://www.paintballgear.ca/trinity-model-98-tube

[Meleager7]

Hi HPL, how does Delrin fare with cold temps? I picked a delrin Shocktech supafly bolt to 1.) remove some orings out of the equation and 2.) I hope it creates more co2 cloudy goodness!

That is great intel on the Rock Regulator and that it can handle liquid! I knew the longer rock regs could deal with some liquid getting in there, but I had no idea they could actually operate fine on it.

Liquid Autococker next?.....hmmmm

[Hp_lovecraft]

Like others said, any non-regulated poppet valve gun should at least function. Some might have a hard time getting below 300fps, needing springs cut, I've found that anything made from the mid 90s on tends to have a large chamber for the valve. This tends to have a negative effect on efficiency when using liquid co2, But thats pretty minor.

The main issue is that the thermal cycling tends to cause wear on low-quality plastic parts. An infamous example of this is the Tippmann 98c. Up to the Model-98, Tippmann officially supported siphon tanks. They were an option from the factory, and recommended them. But by the late 90s, many guns were becoming popular that would be damaged if a siphon was accidentally used, so they decided to end all support for siphons. The Model-98 was redesigned as the 98-Custom and used a weaker plastic power-tube. People being people used siphons anyway, and those power tubes cracked.

And that was that. After 2000, no factory supported them and retailers started letting stock run out. Fortunately, easy enough to make. A small issue arose when someone sued a paintball company over a bottle rocket, and many valves have extra holes and grooves cut into them, making them useless for siphon tanks.

But, one interesting side note- The original Vector was rated to run on siphon. The designer had stated that it was one of the primary design goals. The vector is basically an autococking sterling, with a pneumatic trigger- So a ram, 3-way, and an LPR had to handle liquid. Air Power designed the LPR to be very robust, and vent if any liquid gets into the pneumatics. They got away with that with the C-version, adding an inline regulator. I'm not sure if that version was liquid safe.

The early Palmer autos were also liquid rated. The original rock had a very strong liquid venting system. Glenn himself had stated that Typhoons and Strokers could run a siphon tanks. Like the Vector, they were designed with the ability to handle liquid, on purpose or accident. By the mid 90s, most people had switched to the non-venting micro Rocks.

I always found it odd that the Autococker used such a worthless LPR when it came out, yet the Vector, and Typhoon had very well designed ones. But it does beg the question, if an autococker had a rock, could it run liquid?

[Chappy]

@hplovecraft had a video of clear line on a mega z s well. You still got that NIck?

[Meleager7]

I got my springs in finally (it took 1 month from Cali to Ontario, Canada), a warrior main and valve spring kit.

https://www.ansgear.com/Warrior_Paintball_9_Piece_Spyder_Spring_Kit_p/warspyder9pcspringkit.htm

Installed the gold valve spring ( stiffest) and the black main spring (weakest).

It cycles fine on a regular co2 tank, with the rva backed all the way out.

I just need to get my Siphon tank filled, then I can chrono with some paint and see where its at!

[Meleager7]

cool, if you find it, post it here! ....or make a new vid ! :P

[Meleager7]

Thanks man, yeah, i'm starting to really dig this little spyder ! it's light, it points well and i was fortunate to still be able to find those new old stock parts!

[grendal50]

There was a video somewhere of a PMI Piranha running off of liquid, they had a clear hose from the asa to the front block so you could see the liquid travel through.

[MrBarraclough]

"an unregulated automag with a siphon tank and see how well it works"

Terribly, I would expect. Mags have such a hatred of liquid. When I first got an Automag in '95 and hadn't yet gotten a remote line or expansion chamber, I tried playing with it using a 7oz non-siphon tank on the stock ASA that came bolted to the back of the rail. Not a recommended experience. Shooting downhill caused all sorts of problems. You'll get a wild velocity spike followed by a leak down the barrel. As liquid CO2 expands, it sucks up any ambient heat it can find. That tends to freeze urethane o-rings. Once you freeze the power tube o-ring the dump chamber leaks out the bolt and down the barrel. Since the on/off is open at rest on classic mags, it will just continue to bleed, which will tend to keep the o-ring frozen. Stopping the leak requires pulling and holding the trigger to shut the on/off and cut off the CO2 supply long enough for the o-ring to warm back up and seal again.

Mags really were ahead of their time. TK designed them around HPA before HPA was a thing and made them (I would say grudgingly) backwards compatible with CO2. Liquiding getting in the valve really was an Achilles heel for them. That and blowback up the feedneck causing chops. Force-fed hoppers and HPA are what really let these magnificent machines live up to their potential.

[Tarsun2]

minty fresh Victor with good mods right out the gate. Most people that bought these would go right to the rattle can or cammo duct tape but the clamping feed neck, trigger, and barrel were some of the best things you could do to it. very nice place to start IMO.

[Euphie]

My nostalgia is mostly the fact that with a 90/4500 I can’t even shoot all of the pods in my harness without running out of air. Strapping a 5lb co2 tank to my back though would let me do it.