Hindsight of a self destructing industry.

[flyweightnate]

If someone could get paintball to work for the "escape room" market it could be a nice niche expansion. It's a team-based, mildly stressful competition that doesn't require athletic skill the way golf or basketball does.

But, it's painful and dirty. Would .50cal water balls be a solution? Allow for smaller fields and closer ranges? That might help feed the .68 sport.

[Socalpumpballer]

That niche has already been filled with VR escape rooms. Fields in California have adopted nearly all forms of air sports. .68 cal,Gel ball, airsoft, 50 cal, and nerf, seems they are still struggling. Their models still require close to $100 per person and only for a couple hours. It’s all more expensive than playing regular paintball. The local reball field seems to be making a killing and constantly booked

[JeeperCreeper]

Just to add to this, YouTube loves to show people cheating and flipping out a lot more than good wholesome moments we all share. It seems that if it's not controversial, it doesn't get pushed by the almighty algorithm into people's feeds. If non-paintballers only see that, why would they ever want to play?

[DocsMachine]

To be fair, the sport did it first. I clearly recall threads on places like PBNation and .68Caliber where the general attitude was "if you're not cheating, you're not winning!"

With the idea being that everyone else is cheating, if you don't, too, you'll never win. Whole game techniques were designed around active and passive cheating- like wearing jerseys three sizes too large so it hangs loose in front of you, sliding into a bunker to smear a hit off in the mud, deliberately rubbing up against a paint-covered bunker so your jersey is so smeared a fresh hit is hard to see, and continuing to shoot after a hit, until the ref physically removes your armband.

Heck, people forget that the 'beavertail' of a 'Cocker is an anti-cheating device, not a "cocking rod protector".

The major driver of the ROF wars were cheat boards for electronic markers, with things like "turbo" mode (three shots per two trigger pulls, 'autoresponse' (fire on the pull, fire again on the release) and "ramping" (dialing down the switch debounce so that the ROF goes up) as well as variable dwell to crank up the velocity.

People had magnets sewn into their gloves to that a hidden reed switch would tell the electronics to engage the cheat mode that even banned- back when I worked on a lot of 'shoebox' Shockers, a mod like that was common to engage full auto. Hand it to a ref to check, and it's back to normal semi.

The fact is, you start offering heavy cash money as prizes, the player is going to do whatever he thinks he can get away with in order to win that cash. And often as not, the worst cheaters are also the most flamboyant, and those are the guys that get the screen time.

Doc.

[flyweightnate]

Yeah, exactly.
The difference is, guys stuff weights in their fish in a tournament they get banned and sued. Paintballer cheats he gets sponsored.

[cfos00]

"And often as not, the worst cheaters are also the most flamboyant, and those are the guys that get the screen time."

Very true, and not just in the tourney world. Some of the biggest talkers and most visibly guys that I know of in scenario paintball are known cheaters.

[Melrosejedi]

I have seen alot in my life of playing paintball and i beleive every comment in this topic is accurate. The sport has definitely been effected by air soft ,as at my local field there is more of them than paintball players. Once upon a time, a person wanting to play war would have been a paintball player, but as mentioned it is more painful and dirty. One thing to keep in mind is how we help the future young players when they are experiencing the game in the beginning of their hopeful life long game. I was lucky to start playing in its infancy and the game was slower paced and you learned. Today those kids can and sometimes are thrown to the wolves who care not about the day those kids have. I think this sport is always having its fans of certain types of play and it changes with players through the years. I love it all and hope its here for quite a while longer.

[DocsMachine]

The difference is, guys stuff weights in their fish in a tournament they get banned and sued. Paintballer cheats he gets sponsored.

-That was one of the big things I had about the sport- there was no governing body.

The NPPL tried to be one, but had no real powers to punish. Arguably, the group was also formed of those that often had financial stakes in the tournaments, so there was a lot of turn-a-blind-eye to this, and change the rules to benefit one team, there.

And, the sport in general didn't have the funds to spend on an independent governing body, so you evened up with a lot of cases where Team A wound up reffing Team B, and vice-versa. Something like NASCAR or the NBA has a ton of cash to throw at trained, impartial judges, we didn't. And so there was a lot of "rules for thee but not for me" going on behind the scenes.

Would it have helped if we had a better governing body? Maybe, maybe not. But as an industry, we were, in my opinion, way too tolerant of cheaters. Hell, the only one I can think of that got anything more than a very light tap on the wrist, and told "don't get caught doing that again!", was Jeremy Salm, who was caught hiding in the woods off the field, sniping his team's opponents.

And even then, a few years later, he tried to go back into competitive play, and I think because the series he wanted to get into, was not overseen by the previous event's people, he was allowed to.

Doc.

[PBGunny]

I remember back to my 10 man days in the early 90's...
Our team struggled with even winning games, like even one in a tournament.
This went on for about a year, and we started wining a few, but never could finish out strong.
We practiced, drilled and skirmished against anyone who would play against us.
A couple of us went to talk to some of the teams about what we were doing wrong, places where we could improve.
The one captain of the best team in the league flat out told us that if we wanted to win more, we need to start learning to cheat.
He said we could be really good and go really far if we would just "bend the rules a bit".
We ended up figuring it out and got better, but never went down that cheating road.
I got to the point in 2003-2005 where paintball had really changed and it wasn't the thrill or the fun it used to be.
I could have gone up to the next level, but the game was getting away from where I wanted to be.
The cheating, the language, the attitude, it just wasn't where I wanted to be in my life.
I got married and I didn't think the tournament lifestyle or the persona of it at that time was a good thing for my wife to be exposed to.
Never really gave up paintball... started going to big games and maybe taking friend's kids out to the local place to play.
Problem with that was my tournament background would come back and haunt me.
Field owner would stack the team I would play against with ringers and claim I was too good to play against the walk-ons.
I am so past winning just to satisfy my ego.
I spend most of my time playing trying to pass on what took me decades of playing clean and getting beat without cheating.
I take paintball at my speed, not someone else's speed.
And that is ok with me.

[Jonnydread]

I rage quit in 2006 for very similar reasons. My only goal now is to have fun with my friends and get a little exercise while I do. Still fun to play hard, but I sure as shit don't take it as seriously.

[boomersruckus]

I remember back to my 10 man days in the early 90's...
Our team struggled with even winning games, like even one in a tournament.
This went on for about a year, and we started wining a few, but never could finish out strong.
We practiced, drilled and skirmished against anyone who would play against us.
A couple of us went to talk to some of the teams about what we were doing wrong, places where we could improve.
The one captain of the best team in the league flat out told us that if we wanted to win more, we need to start learning to cheat.
He said we could be really good and go really far if we would just "bend the rules a bit".
We ended up figuring it out and got better, but never went down that cheating road.
I got to the point in 2003-2005 where paintball had really changed and it wasn't the thrill or the fun it used to be.
I could have gone up to the next level, but the game was getting away from where I wanted to be.
The cheating, the language, the attitude, it just wasn't where I wanted to be in my life.
I got married and I didn't think the tournament lifestyle or the persona of it at that time was a good thing for my wife to be exposed to.
Never really gave up paintball... started going to big games and maybe taking friend's kids out to the local place to play.
Problem with that was my tournament background would come back and haunt me.
Field owner would stack the team I would play against with ringers and claim I was too good to play against the walk-ons.
I am so past winning just to satisfy my ego.
I spend most of my time playing trying to pass on what took me decades of playing clean and getting beat without cheating.
I take paintball at my speed, not someone else's speed.
And that is ok with me.

This is so true. I worked my way up the tournament ranks from 1999 to 2004 and then just got tired of it all. I had the pleasure of playing with Marckus Neilson in 2003 and he literally got shot and as he ran to the deadbox, just kinda reinserted himself into the game in the bunker closest to the deadbox. This was NPPL 7 man. After that, my eyes were wide open to the cheating and poor reffing that tolerated cheating and I had enough. I was done. I also never quit playing and still play to this day including tourneys but its not the same. I wear walk on camo as my friends call it. Cargo pants, a flanel shirt and I use an EMEK almost strictly. I have an ego thats in check and I play to the level that is around me. Several games I will literally hip shoot just because its funny to do. I do however have the fangs still tucked away and for the most part they stay hidden but from time to time I feel they need to make a showing to check other peeps who are bullying walk-ons. I am not great by any means, But I am physically fit and have over 30 years of experience playing in this sport. That does translate to some bit of skill. Particularly snapshooting. I get the greatest of joys when I snap out peeps who are rocking their egos for everyone enjoyment. They love when I show them the mech gun that did it.

[pillage]

Obnoxious cheats have always been around since the beginning. Plenty of sponsored "Teams" over the years attracted cheating turds. Turds of the feather, tend to float together. Douchebaggery on the rec fields is just icing on the cake.

[Grendel]

I can not count how many times I found hex keys cut in the end of a squeegee during tournaments in the late 80's early 90s at a Judge/Ref. at various tournaments [e.g. Masters, IAO, CPL...etc.]. There will always be cheaters and if you let them get away with it they will stay and taint the game.

[DocsMachine]

I remember years ago, some guys and I on the early Guild, were talking about putting together a sort of 'cheater database', with the intention of teaching players and refs the various techniques used and what to look out for.

Except, of course, after a moment's thought, we all agreed it was more likely to become a "how to" guide than anything else, and we dropped it like a hot potato.

I will admit, however, that, just from a historical/background point of view, it'd be interesting reading detailing the various ways players have skirted the rules. Heck, "Smokey" Yunick cheated his way through decades of stock-car racing, and even today is practically hailed as a god.

Doc.

[pillage]

King Richard was a pro a cheating in his early years of NASCAR.

[Chuck E Ducky]

[zinger565]

Motorsports is probably one of the closest comparisons when it comes to "pushing the rulebook" and not seeing long-term ramifications.

Just my personal experience having done tournament media, including NXL events, the past couple of years, but cheating culture is less celebrated than it was in 04-08 era. Refs are better, 10.5bps makes it easier to hear modified rof, and even regional tournaments are bringing in top level refs to run their fields. I'm not saying there isn't cheating, becuase there absolutely is, but it's not nearly as glorified as it used to be.

[xicer]

Motorsports is probably one of the closest comparisons when it comes to "pushing the rulebook" and not seeing long-term ramifications.

Just my personal experience having done tournament media, including NXL events, the past couple of years, but cheating culture is less celebrated than it was in 04-08 era. Refs are better, 10.5bps makes it easier to hear modified rof, and even regional tournaments are bringing in top level refs to run their fields. I'm not saying there isn't cheating, becuase there absolutely is, but it's not nearly as glorified as it used to be.

Yeah, I think the cheating discourse does itself no favors comparing the sport to stick and ball sports. Paintball is a "gear" sport like motorsports or skiing, and the cheating in those areas are much more similar to what we see.

That being said, look at baseball still. The rule bending and cheating there is basically normalized (see: stickum) to a level not that far off from paintball.

[The Hobbit]

Yeah I’d be surprised if cheating isn’t a part of every sport at the top competitive levels. Whether it is the dirty secret or the barely concealed skill set is another discussion.

[vijil]

The legendary All Blacks rugby team are the best because they are trained, very carefully, to play the grey area of the rules. That's how our entire rugby culture operates here in NZ. Rugby is slightly unique because there are massive advantages to be gained by being just a little over the offside line at the breakdown, having your feet very slightly off the ground in the ruck, coming in to a ruck from the side... etc. etc.

There are a few sports where the rules are fuzzily enforced enough and the advantages are big enough to make that kind of play become the meta. Paintball is another one.