Paintball

[idkfa]

I have a question to ask, and I need an honest answer. I have asked before about Automag performance in the cold, and how to run CO2 well, and this is not (quite) about that.

I need to know if I am being entirely naive or crazy to try to use CO2 on an Automag. What I mean by that has to do with the performance difference in HPA and CO2. Does HPA work that much better? I am talking in generalities here, temperature is not a concern. I can afford either HPA or CO2 , so the cost is not an issue. I am starting to find CO2 fills expensive, and the shop occasionally is without it. HPA seems so much cheaper in the long run, and quicker to fill (the CO2 line at big games may be shorter where I play, but no one is attending the station ).

I love the fact that I can shoot 1/4 case using a 9 or 12 oz CO2 tank. They are small tanks, and coming from a stock class Phantom, I much prefer compact setups. The weight is not an issue either, with CO2 or HPA, it is the bulk. I can handle a steely tank, but the size bugs me.

Basically I am asking if HPA gives enough of a performance advantage to warrant sacrificing my comfort. I am planning to run an anti-siphon CO2 tank through a PPS Stab on my Classic Automag. I would probably look at getting a 68/4500 or similar tank if I went to HPA.

I promise this will be my last question on the matter, but I feel I have not made up my mind yet.

[Jordan]

To be honest, with the right drop setup, you won't notice the bulk, especially with a fiber wrapped tank.

Go with the HPA tank - cheaper to fill, you'll get better performance (more stable pressure), and over all you won't have the problems you would with CO2.

Sure, Co2 was used for years on Mags - doesn't mean that they liked it. Most of the problems you will have will be related to CO2 use, like shot seals, velocity problems, drop-off, etc.

In short - GET A HPA TANK.

Jordan

[idkfa]

*huff*

I guess I will start to consider HPA...

What is a "good" size tank to get? I see 68/45 and 88/45 tanks going all the time here for fairly cheap, are they decent? I don't mind the hydro cost, so I would rather go cheap. When I said I could afford HPA, I meant a used tank, not a $300-400 Dye number.

[Motorhead]

Have 3 classic mags, and run ALL of them on Anti Siphon Co2 tanks.

** BTW, you DO NOT want to use a Regulator of any kind using Co2 with a Classic mag valve. They are designed to have 800 -1200 psi input pressure. The Valves internal regulator takes it down to @ 450#

Best way to use Co2 and be VERY cost effective is buy a 20 or 50 pound Siphon ( Dip tube ) tank and a fill station set up and do your own fills !!

I get my 20# tank filled for @ $24. A 16 ounce bottle cost me about $1.20 to fill

Filling from a 50# cost even less !!

[aqua_scummm]

CO2 is still my drug of choice...

Its still smaller, more comfy to use as a stock, lighter, cheaper, and it works fine on my mags with an expansion chamber (no anti siphon even).

I don't fill my own, but would if I didn't live in a single rented room.

Also, if I go play at an open field, where there's no field fees, refs, etc, I can bring 4 9 ounce tanks for dirt cheap, and never need to fill them. I then watch others get diminishing returns from their 3000 psi scuba tank, that by the end of the day is giving 1900 psi fills.

For me, it makes more sense to stay with CO2, but other people have different situations, so be objective.



If you live in a really cold enviroment, and have a heavy trigger finger, you may still experience issues with an automag and CO2, because the starting ambient temperature of your seals is lower, the temperature needs to drop less to get to the point where they harden too much and present a problem

[idkfa]

Originally Posted by aqua_scummm

If you live in a really cold enviroment, and have a heavy trigger finger, you may still experience issues with an automag and CO2, because the starting ambient temperature of your seals is lower, the temperature needs to drop less to get to the point where they harden too much and present a problem

It was -15°C last night here...

Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and convert. I really don't like running HPA due to the bulk. I agree with you about 9 oz tanks, they are awesome.

I found someone local selling a 5 month old 68/4500 with cover for $140, so I may pick that up. I have a 48/3000 coming in the mail (got it for cheap to resell or test), but I have used them before and I KNOW it is going to be too heavy and awkward for me to prefer using it.

[Robertsr]

Hated mags before I got HPA.

LOVE them now. No freeze up under rapid fire, EVER. Been playing the same valve for almost 9 years now and still have yet to change the seals.

I'd go HPA.

[secretweaponevan]

I strongly recommend HPA with a mag in any temps below 50 degrees F.

You'll spend just about as much on CO2 solutions as you will on an HPA tank. With HPA, you can see how much pressure you have left in your tank at a glance, and play within seconds of filling. With CO2, I always had to wait for the tank to warm up and stabilize before using it on a mag.

I think it is absolutely worth the cost for the performance benefit at all temperatures.

[Shane-O]

I use a 45/45 on my mag 99% of the time, it isnt bulky, I can get 4 pods and a hopper with it. For colder temps, I would use HPA without any thought about Co2. Co2 is pretty much for purists or people who cant get HPA easily any more.

[ljpiller]

It's when the temperature gets below 40-50F that I start to break out my 4' hose.

I run my mag in the old back bottle format, so a HPA tank is incredibly uncomfortable. It's heavy, and blocks my line of sight. 7/9 oz tanks are what I live off of. I highly recommend using an anti-siphon tank. I've used straight CO2 into the back bottle and it works ok on hot days. The biggest problem is having liquid leak into the system and causing a booming shot. Other than that I never really shoot more than 400-500 rounds a day and don't fire huge strings of paint so the power tube o-ring freezing is never a problem.

CO2 is just what I'm used to using. I've tried HPA and it didn't really increase my consistency a noticeable amount. Automags already have a regulator and the second stage doesn't add a whole lot. CO2 can be used just as effectively as long as you don't exceed it's limitations.