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Old 07-30-2012, 07:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Why is there "dead space" in a phantom body?

I'm working on new phantom body for a project. One thing I've always wondered about is if there is any reason for the ball to sit in the breech instead of the barrel. I'm not good at explaining so here's a pic



One advantage with having the ball in the barrel is that you get anti-rollout and anti-doublefeed if you underbore.

Is there any disadvantages? I'm sure I'm not the first one wondering about this so I feel like there must be a reason.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm no phantom expert, but I would think it would render the widget system useless and cause rollouts. Basically you would have to use a barrel kit right off the bat.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well there is that annoying little detail call the front grip frame screw..

If you bore out the body like you drew it your going to have problems...

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Old 07-30-2012, 07:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maggot View Post
I'm no phantom expert, but I would think it would render the widget system useless and cause rollouts. Basically you would have to use a barrel kit right off the bat.
Widget system? Are you sure this is standard on phantoms? Or do you mean the detente rings? Yeah, but your right about that.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMatt-MadCustoms View Post
Well there is that annoying little detail call the front grip frame screw..

If you bore out the body like you drew it your going to have problems...

Bigmatt
Oh... I just noticed that now How did I miss that!
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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that is the difference between breech drop and bore drop. hammers, trracers, nelsons with longer bolts are bore drop because ball gets pushed into the barrel.
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Oh... I just noticed that now How did I miss that!
Well sometimes a little too much Akkurat will do that to you..

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Old 07-30-2012, 07:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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What you're talking about is breech-drop vs bore-drop systems.

Phantoms, and (to my knowledge) most other low- to mid-end Nelson based markers use the bore-drop system, probably due to ease of manufacture.

Carter Machine uses breech-drop, however. If you look at Carter barrels they are all bevelled nice and smooth to facilitate the ball loading into the barrel.

From my experience (Mini-Comp with inserts vs Phantom with detent rings, Freak inserts or any number of barrels) the bore-drop is superior in handling fragile paint. I don't have a Phantom at the moment to compare too, but I'll take some pics of my MiniComp if you'd like.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedirt199 View Post
that is the difference between breech drop and bore drop. hammers, trracers, nelsons with longer bolts are bore drop because ball gets pushed into the barrel.
I know the difference between bore and breech drop, but I thought that just because it's breech drop doesn't necessarily mean that the ball sits in the breech instead of the barrel? I thought that bore drop was just a longer bolt and not the "ramp" (from bolt ID to breech ID).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMatt-MadCustoms View Post
Well sometimes a little too much Akkurat will do that to you..

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost334 View Post
What you're talking about is breech-drop vs bore-drop systems.

Phantoms, and (to my knowledge) most other low- to mid-end Nelson based markers use the bore-drop system, probably due to ease of manufacture.

Carter Machine uses breech-drop, however. If you look at Carter barrels they are all bevelled nice and smooth to facilitate the ball loading into the barrel.

From my experience (Mini-Comp with inserts vs Phantom with detent rings, Freak inserts or any number of barrels) the bore-drop is superior in handling fragile paint. I don't have a Phantom at the moment to compare too, but I'll take some pics of my MiniComp if you'd like.
Thanks. Pictures would be nice, If you want to I've never seen a carter in real life, are they autococker-threaded? Or some special? I wonder if there's any improvement in efficiency too? You don't get these mini-rollouts right?
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedirt199 View Post
that is the difference between breech drop and bore drop. hammers, trracers, nelsons with longer bolts are bore drop because ball gets pushed into the barrel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost334 View Post
What you're talking about is breech-drop vs bore-drop systems.

Phantoms, and (to my knowledge) most other low- to mid-end Nelson based markers use the bore-drop system, probably due to ease of manufacture.

Carter Machine uses breech-drop, however. If you look at Carter barrels they are all bevelled nice and smooth to facilitate the ball loading into the barrel.

From my experience (Mini-Comp with inserts vs Phantom with detent rings, Freak inserts or any number of barrels) the bore-drop is superior in handling fragile paint. I don't have a Phantom at the moment to compare too, but I'll take some pics of my MiniComp if you'd like.
Aren't you guys mistaken? Both drawings show breech drop systems.
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