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Old 09-06-2007, 10:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How fast is too fast?

So I've been thinking about getting myself a dedicated, honest to goodness "Speedball" gun for next season. I'm primarily a fan of woodsball, but with the preponderance of speedball/xball/airball etc gaming going on, it seems that I might be doing myself a disservice by not forcing myself to get better at playing/enjoying the world of fast-paced paint-dumping. In the past, my speedball experiences have been with bigger (10+ teams), mixed groups varying from experienced with mid-high markers to renters with 98s, and I've been using various markers including but not limited to a Phantom, LP e-Spyder, and a Tib 8, all with varying degrees of success. The Phantom is certainly fun in all types of games, but it's borderline non-competitive in speedball, and I'm assuming it's extremely so in 5 on 5 or 3 on 3 games where your teammates will rely on each player to be able to lay down some continuous fire; same goes for the pistol. I'm also considering trying to start a club and possibly team at the new job I'll be moving to shortly, since there appears to not be one at present.

That said, I've been perusing various forums and vendors doing some pre-research prior to the end of model year/winter sales. Money isn't particularly an object, assuming the price comes with inherent quality, style, and resale value assuming I get injured/the whoring bug/whipped/etc. However whenever I start looking at things like Egos, Marqs, etc, and reading all the agglet feedback about how they can pull 30 bps, and they can mow the most face, I start wondering...WHY?!

Respecting the experience (and ability to use proper, understandable grammar ) of the people on this forum, I figure I'll ask the important question: How fast is too fast, or how much gun is too much gun? Since it seems to me that most places and tourneys have a 15bps cap, assuming I have a marker/hopper capable of reliably putting out 15bps (which can be a $40 Spyder with some TLC), is that really sufficient? Obviously there are other factors involved such as comfort, weight, and size. I don't see gas efficiency being an issue in speedball unless you're doing marathon sessions with no time to refill/swap tanks, and to me accuracy is by definition not required when shooting mass volume..otherwise you'd be shooting 3 balls instead of 50. In terms of ROF though, is there really any reason to care once you get to 15, unless you plan on making YouTube videos of how fast you can walk? Am I smoking the proverbial crack here thinking that there isn't a really good reason to pick up one of the very high-end electro guns? If I can walk a $200 electro at 15bps and it's comfortable enough for me to move and shoot nimbly, is that truly all I need?
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You just want a consistent, durable gun.

I mostly use my phantom for speedball, id say it is borderline SUPER-competitive. Run direct feed and constant air and youl have a ball.

Either way. There is an incredible amt of good electros out there now, and for cheap.

Proto matrix's are dirt cheap same with dm4's and both are great guns, 05 speeds are cheap (pay 300) and are basically current, heck even 06 cyborgs are only 600 dollars and less.

You have a lot at your fingertips. You can get a viking for 300-400 dollars and those are invincible and one of the fastest guns ever made. Very friendly maintenance too.

Take your pick.
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Old 09-06-2007, 10:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yep, so long as it's not gonna break on you.

I'd recommend an Invert Mini if you're looking for something 'new'

or if you have a bit more cash to spend and want something neat, i'd suggest an e-mag (which has the added benefit that if the battery dies, you can still pull it in mech mode)
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quick reply, thanks! Yeah, the AKA markers are something I need to look into more, I don't know much about them other than they have a pretty die-hard fanbase. Those might be a good choice too, since I'd prefer something a little more rugged and reliable. I'm strongly considering a Blazer as well, although I would like to diversify myself a little and I'm already looking at having a Squall and possibly a Stroker in my inventory.

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Originally Posted by Cunha View Post
You just want a consistent, durable gun.

I mostly use my phantom for speedball, id say it is borderline SUPER-competitive. Run direct feed and constant air and youl have a ball.

Either way. There is an incredible amt of good electros out there now, and for cheap.

Proto matrix's are dirt cheap same with dm4's and both are great guns, 05 speeds are cheap (pay 300) and are basically current, heck even 06 cyborgs are only 600 dollars and less.

You have a lot at your fingertips. You can get a viking for 300-400 dollars and those are invincible and one of the fastest guns ever made. Very friendly maintenance too.

Take your pick.
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If rof is a concern I might look elsewhere than the stroker. Mine was easily beaten by a phantom with a hopper body and AT, but the again with a stroker you wont be shaking the gun as much as you would with AT.

I will second the Emag vote, I have one and love it. I went through and tried a fair amount of electros before the emag found its way to me now I know I have ended my search and happily at that.

FWIW I have the Xmod on mine and love it. I am using a 88/5k big ol drop and a ULE centerfeed body. I am also currently using a revy to feed it but am looking to upgrade both my loader and HPA in the future. id really like to take advantage of a higher input pressure and a faster loader.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I wanted something nice but not something with a lot of money tied up in it since I'm rapidly becoming more a fan of mechanicals.

I ended up with a Promaster and an Apache hopper. Although I have yet to play with it in a game it shoots a steady ramped stream of paint into my test target pipe. Sure goes through paint in a hurry though....

The Promaster is a nice compact easy to hold setup. I also like the quick pull bolt setup that let's me swab out the entire top path in a hurry if needed.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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13bps is all I ever need. I have peaked in fire rate around 19bps, but there is no way I can sustain anything over 15, Unless I am far more terrible than I realize I don't think any of those agglets could ever pull 30bps. I use a Halo B and an Egg II w/zboard, they both support this just fine.

I have an E-mag as well, and I love it, but sometimes I feel I don't use it as I should. Most of my days at the field I am using my Mechanical Automag, 2000 Cobra/WDP Custom Angel LCD, and my 1998 Shocker 4x4. I consider all of these guns competitive, I think you might be overestimating the value of firepower. a good 9bps is enough to make most players put their head in if not, assuming your gun has any accuracy, they will be eliminated anyway.

I've played Speedball with my PGP with mixed results, It was never firepower that won those games, it was smart movement, and good communication.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:43 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Hrm..the Emag seems pretty popular, I'll have to check into those as well. How do those compare to Pneumags?

With regards to my Phantom, it's stock class, hence why I'm finding it insufficient...12 balls and 12 grams is doable when there are a bunch of people on the field, but like I mentioned I don't see being able to cover teammates well enough with it in a smaller game..same goes for sidearms.

I did pick up an AT-85 that I'm gonna be trying out next weekend. Shooting reballs at my couch on full-auto seems pretty impressive thus far, but I suspect most fields will frown on FA fire, even if it's at a lower rate than an electro can be fanned.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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E mags are totally different than Pneumags. I dont really reccomend them. They are heavy and inefficient. Lightweight ones are damn expensive, comparable to modern guns.

Vikings by far are the most rugged electro in my opinion, and one of if not the only electro you do not need to "grease" but instead just use regular good old fashioned oil. They are built on tighter tolerances. They are as fast as any brand new electro, and the newest ones are 3 years old now.

The cheap ones are also the heavy ones though.

Emags are just not that practical of a choice..you are pretty much better off with a hyperframed automag in my opinion.. a hyperframe is just a sear tripper frame for a mag. No battery free operation but it is a lot simpler and does the same job.

For a new cheap electro the mini is an awesome choice. I havent not to shoot the one i have because i want to still call it new, but everything ive seen about them is just good design too. They are as small as a gun can be..any smaller and your loader would stick out the back of it and it wouldnt save you any space.

Everyone will tell you to get something, there are tons of good guns. Sorry for pointing away from emags (to all who like them) I like them too but I just dont think they are an easy gun..parts are obscure and pricey and they are really just kind of oddballs. For the price there is essentially everything available to you..unless you want one of the older ones that simply weigh a ton.
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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15 bps is the legal limit anyway so I dont really care how fast a marker is able to shoot.

In speedball you want a high rof for a short period of time just so you can pick off players bumping up from bunker to bunker/sliding into the snake, shooting off te break, shooting lanes etc. If youre serious about wanting to play speedball and getting better at it I suggest you get a used DM/PM/Etek and stay away from mech/pump markers as fancy as they might be. You want to be able to deliver 15bps down range when you need it. NO DROPFORWARDS! Look how the pros have their marker setups, it makes all the difference in the world. I used to run a huge drop and while I was able to shoot people from my bunker I didn't have any accuracy when running....and like I said if youre serious about improving yourself you NEED to learn how to run and shoot.

As for loader I suggest a Halo B, may need to buy new shells for it once or twice per season, depending on how often you play.

If you just want to go outthere and play for s**ts and giggles and not feel undergunned then take any marker setup you feel comfortable with, but if you seriously want to improve your game you dont want to have your equipment holding you back. Having said that I play in D1 with a karnivor, what can I say, I still love cockers.
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