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Old 05-13-2008, 09:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
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well let see for open bolt markers (such as your jabb pistols) your right and for closed bolt markers (like cockers) your wrong, there we are finished.

Andrewliu6294 - hone it or brasso polish it your choice, or actualy do both brasso would be a good follow up to honing.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The safest thing to do would be to use a cotton rag rolled up on a dowel rod with Mothers Magnum Aluminum polish and attach it to a drill. This method will polish the barrel and NOT take away any I.D.. I use this method all the time with non anodized aluminum barrels and brass and stainless steel barrels.

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Old 05-13-2008, 11:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh good grief.
Quote:
his point is, you wrote a half a page bashing jordans post.. where the only thing he was saying is that you need to match bores to keep your paint in your gun on closed bolt markers..
Which I had already stated IN EVERY ONE of my posts, yes. Why did he repeat it? To suggest I was wrong that's why. Sorry to be so observant, Sly1.
Also, I'M ON MCB, so not every gun I have, has detents that prevent roll out.. especially my Sheridan P68SC. That's why I mention the danger of rollouts in every post and why I wonder now what the reason is people keep bringing it up? I'll calm down immediately the minute anyone shows me a scrap of proof that I'm not right, instead of, as Monty Python(Michael Palin I think) would say, just practicing "the automatic gainsay of everything the other person says". Besides I tried calm the last 2 times I got trolled like this and it didn't work.


Clearush, show me some data, ANY DATA AT ALL.
I have plenty to show you that says you are dead wrong. See Deep Blue( Automags.Org Online Forums - Deep Blue), hear what Glenn Palmer has to say, read the data I linked you to on Brush research's site and THEN argue with me. Because right now all I'm getting from anyone is "NUH-UH", which I can get from my little granddaughter and she's cuter than you(no offense, but I'm prejudiced ).

Oh, and Sly1,
Quote:
and actually, a battle swab, because of its semetrical shape will stay fairly centered, simply because of the even pressure along its circumfrence.. this is probably the best method for small wear repairs.. not only does it get them out, but it leaves plenty of material in the barrel for it to happen again. your hone will enlarge the bore incredibly each time.. so eventually you get to throw away a barrel..
what do you base this on, other than the urge to defend people you like against people you dont know, exactly?
"fairly centered"???
How much does a flexhone, which by the way come in FOUR different grits for paintball barrels take off per pass?
you don't have any idea, so why are we arguing?
With the levigated alumina extra fine that I suggested it took me 30 PASSES to get from .691 to .693. So I went point .002 with 30, so 2 would do... That's right, an amount so small you'd need a serious set of measuring devices to find out it was done at all, except for the fact that your gun will shoot better.

EDIT: InfamousSmiley,
Quote:
This method will polish the barrel and NOT take away any I.D
How is this possible exactly?
Rob
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Last edited by agentSmith; 05-13-2008 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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nevermind not worth my time
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
On the old 'give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for ever' scene, Brush Research's excellent Flexhones are for sale at a fair price. Then you're set for life.
It's pretty simple, a little honing oil on the brush and make a few passes down the barrel with the hone on a hand drill and you're good to go:

Brush research Paintball section
Self centering and self tensioning, they work very well.

I recommend for touching up a barrel like you're doing the Levigated Alumina extra fine, it will take off the least amount of material per pass, and at $36.81 it's cheaper than it was when I bought my first one many years ago.

Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
B and I disagree on this subject obviously.

As someone who oneballed a running HS Mercenary(and tourney player) at 60 FEET, 6 and a half mins into this video, Village Game , shooting .685 paint through a .693 barrel(a feat I repeat with regularity) I call BS on all things regarding paint to barrel match.
Unless the paint is so small it won't be held by the detent, it just doesn't matter as long as the barrel is smooth. If the barrel is not smooth, it will shoot like poo.

I shoot small paint through big barrels all the time with great results including 30 shots a 12ie, and though I haven't done true scientific experimentation to prove it doesn't matter, THAT'S BECAUSE GLENN PALMER ALREADY DID IT! Glad not to have to bother, Thanks Mr Palmer!


Rob
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Not sure what kind of gun you use - but with a closed bolt, like a Cocker or Sniper, you NEED to match your paint.

Now, if you have a set of wedgits in the barrel you can get away with what you've been doing, or if you have an open bolt gun, go ahead - the most accurate gun I've used was a Tippmann with a large bore BOA barrel.

Anyways, back to topic - like B said, don't worry about some scratches, as long as they are linear, meaning they go along the length of the barrel. Is it shooting poorly? If it's still shooting okay, then leave well enough alone.

Jordan
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Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
A good thing I agree UNLESS the marker has this new thing called a 'detent' or another new invention you mentioned called a 'wedgit', I WILL correct you, however, that rollouts are not any good in an open bolt marker either.

I mention rollouts in every post so what's your point exactly?
As for:

unles you're a terminator, you will not be able to get the precision that the self centering and selftensioning flexhone gets. $40 AND THEY LAST 20 YEARS IS PENNIES A BARREL!!!!

Listen, it's not my mission to go around poking holes in WGP's silver dollar pinata, but I won't be trolled into silence by repeated comments about sewer pipe or SEPERATE issues like phases of the moon or rollout.
Andrewliu6294 did not ask about rollouts Clearush. Had he I would've suggested getting a smaller barrel.

WGP doesn't even enter my world, they don't make a pistol, so they might as well make lawnmowers, I could care less about them. However, I won't have people with bad or no data insinuate I'm a liar. Everytime B has trolled me I've given him the links to REAL data, he's never read a word of any of it or I would've gotten an apologetic PM by now. Deep Blue is waiting for him and the rest of you over at AO.org, let Tom Kaye call you guys liars instead of me.

I made the shot in that vid and every other shot I've made for the last 5 years, including 12 eliminations in a SPPL Finals game in Oklahoma last year, using a $120 Armotech zeus and then a $120 Miltec G2 pistol, both with .691 barrels flexhoned to .693.
Our 15 man(10players onfield, 5 subs) team took second in the michigan SPPL qualifier behind the Gardners and Darryl Trent with Smart Corps and took 10th overall out of 80 national teams with me as the onfield commander in all but 3 games(the onfield commander can't be subbed). My team believes in my pistol because they see things they don't want to believe all the time and it's NOT because Hong Kong makes magic barrels it's because I honed them.

The detent in my cheezy pistols wouldn't work for smaller paint when I got it, so ironically I use a Cooper-T COCKER detent that I modded on there, so I know a cocker detent is equal to the task if it's installed to it's maximum depth. I can now bench-rest shoot a mixed mag of .689 and .685 paint with noone able to tell what order I loaded them into the mag.

Rob 'can you tell I'm on Prednisone' Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Oh good grief.

Which I had already stated IN EVERY ONE of my posts, yes. Why did he repeat it? To suggest I was wrong that's why. Sorry to be so observant, Sly1.
Also, I'M ON MCB, so not every gun I have, has detents that prevent roll out.. especially my Sheridan P68SC. That's why I mention the danger of rollouts in every post and why I wonder now what the reason is people keep bringing it up? I'll calm down immediately the minute anyone shows me a scrap of proof that I'm not right, instead of, as Monty Python(Michael Palin I think) would say, just practicing "the automatic gainsay of everything the other person says". Besides I tried calm the last 2 times I got trolled like this and it didn't work.


Clearush, show me some data, ANY DATA AT ALL.
I have plenty to show you that says you are dead wrong. See Deep Blue( Automags.Org Online Forums - Deep Blue), hear what Glenn Palmer has to say, read the data I linked you to on Brush research's site and THEN argue with me. Because right now all I'm getting from anyone is "NUH-UH", which I can get from my little granddaughter and she's cuter than you(no offense, but I'm prejudiced ).

Oh, and Sly1,

what do you base this on, other than the urge to defend people you like against people you dont know, exactly?
"fairly centered"???
How much does a flexhone, which by the way come in FOUR different grits for paintball barrels take off per pass?
you don't have any idea, so why are we arguing?
With the levigated alumina extra fine that I suggested it took me 30 PASSES to get from .691 to .693. So I went point .002 with 30, so 2 would do... That's right, an amount so small you'd need a serious set of measuring devices to find out it was done at all, except for the fact that your gun will shoot better.

EDIT: InfamousSmiley,
How is this possible exactly?
Rob
Ok.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith
B and I disagree on this subject obviously.

As someone who oneballed a running HS Mercenary(and tourney player) at 60 FEET, 6 and a half mins into this video, Village Game , shooting .685 paint through a .693 barrel(a feat I repeat with regularity) I call BS on all things regarding paint to barrel match.
Unless the paint is so small it won't be held by the detent, it just doesn't matter as long as the barrel is smooth. If the barrel is not smooth, it will shoot like poo.

I shoot small paint through big barrels all the time with great results including 30 shots a 12ie, and though I haven't done true scientific experimentation to prove it doesn't matter, THAT'S BECAUSE GLENN PALMER ALREADY DID IT! Glad not to have to bother, Thanks Mr Palmer!


Rob
Not sure what kind of gun you use - but with a closed bolt, like a Cocker or Sniper, you NEED to match your paint.

Now, if you have a set of wedgits in the barrel you can get away with what you've been doing, or if you have an open bolt gun, go ahead - the most accurate gun I've used was a Tippmann with a large bore BOA barrel.

Anyways, back to topic - like B said, don't worry about some scratches, as long as they are linear, meaning they go along the length of the barrel. Is it shooting poorly? If it's still shooting okay, then leave well enough alone.


Jordan




second to last line middle paragraph of my post.
Quote:
Unless the paint is so small it won't be held by the detent
so this:
Quote:
Mr Smith - you DID not mention rollouts on the post I quoted you. Jumping all over me for repeating you is pointless. I did not.
is just plain wrong. Perhaps if you were really digesting the info in my posts as I have the courtesy to do yours you wouldn't have missed it.

Quote:
Furthermore - AGD's experiments show that the ball does not form to the barrel while being shot, which negates PPS's theory that the ball "swages" to the barrel and their "elliptical honing" works wonders. Who's making what up now? Plus, the ball does not care if it's shot through a brass barrel or a stainless steel barrel - they work equally as well, in my experience.
Tom Kaye didn't think SP would sue him out of the Emag or he wouldn't have started on it, so he was wrong once too, feel free to disregard EVERYTHING HE'S EVER SAID.
You've been wrong just in this thread, should I disregard you? I don't. I filter what you say through my own experience and try to understand what you're saying, instead of just rabidly waiting my turn to post.


Quote:
Why on earth would I repeat you to prove you wrong? How does that work? If that's the case, I better get on top of SP's patent infringement case and start repeating everything they say - maybe we can shut them down.
Only you can answer the first question, as for the last, if there's the slightest possibility it would work I would help you, but there isn't I'm afraid.


I'm still waiting for one shred of data to refute what you guys have been trolling me about this whole thread.
I make one of your points go away and you wipe that hit and make up something new.

I have to admit I'm enjoying myself immensely, though. That's what I like about MCB, except for a few sourpusses like B and Clearush(may they be wrong with joy forever), people are openminded enough to listen even when they disagree.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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the only point I've been trying to make and your obviouly to slow to recognize is over bored cocker barrels have serious roll out issues now you may have interjected your own though pattern to argue with your self or something or I may not have been clear enough in what I was actualy addressing but you have been trolling every single poster in this thread mostly on things we weren't even addressing.

so last statement - detents in closed bolt markers prevent double feeding they do not prevent roll outs! the only thing in a closed bolt marker that will prevent roll outs are palmer wedgits and a barrel matched to the paint.

so your wrong about closed bolt markers ok and I can go in my back yard and prove the roll outs day in and day out to my hearts content and all the posting from AO and Palmer (which I have read and don't particularly disagree with) had nothing at all to do with the issue I was addresing I am sorry if my posts were to vauge or your just to slow to understand what I was talking about.
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Last edited by Clearush; 05-14-2008 at 11:41 AM. Reason: in a better mood now
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Angry

Agent Smith,

Chill out. I posted to offer help to original poster, not to fight with you. Besides, the "ask the experts" subforum is where you go to get answers and to help out others, not deal with this bickering.

smiley


Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Oh good grief.

Which I had already stated IN EVERY ONE of my posts, yes. Why did he repeat it? To suggest I was wrong that's why. Sorry to be so observant, Sly1.
Also, I'M ON MCB, so not every gun I have, has detents that prevent roll out.. especially my Sheridan P68SC. That's why I mention the danger of rollouts in every post and why I wonder now what the reason is people keep bringing it up? I'll calm down immediately the minute anyone shows me a scrap of proof that I'm not right, instead of, as Monty Python(Michael Palin I think) would say, just practicing "the automatic gainsay of everything the other person says". Besides I tried calm the last 2 times I got trolled like this and it didn't work.


Clearush, show me some data, ANY DATA AT ALL.
I have plenty to show you that says you are dead wrong. See Deep Blue( Automags.Org Online Forums - Deep Blue), hear what Glenn Palmer has to say, read the data I linked you to on Brush research's site and THEN argue with me. Because right now all I'm getting from anyone is "NUH-UH", which I can get from my little granddaughter and she's cuter than you(no offense, but I'm prejudiced ).

Oh, and Sly1,

what do you base this on, other than the urge to defend people you like against people you dont know, exactly?
"fairly centered"???
How much does a flexhone, which by the way come in FOUR different grits for paintball barrels take off per pass?
you don't have any idea, so why are we arguing?
With the levigated alumina extra fine that I suggested it took me 30 PASSES to get from .691 to .693. So I went point .002 with 30, so 2 would do... That's right, an amount so small you'd need a serious set of measuring devices to find out it was done at all, except for the fact that your gun will shoot better.

EDIT: InfamousSmiley,
How is this possible exactly?
Rob
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It was a combination of your being slightly too vague and my not DEFINITELY having enough experience with cocker terminology to get what you were saying, clearush. Trust me, I'm not 'to slow'. If you had started with this:
Quote:
detents in closed bolt markers prevent double feeding they do not prevent roll outs! the only thing in a closed bolt marker that will prevent roll outs are palmer wedgits and a barrel matched to the paint
we wouldn't have disagreed on anything except when you said this:
Quote:
And unless you have a gouge in the barrel that is busting paint a shotgun swab with some brasso chucked into a power drill can make that bore look shiney and pretty for a cost of $8-$10 total cost with brasso left over to do it again. Flexhone could be a good thing but it may not be nessecary.
I apologize for misconstruing both cocker construction and your original post. So please forgive an old man and replace the word detent where I've used it inappropriately with the word 'wedgits' and then everything I said, I'll stand by.

Including the fact that the reason that I refer to what you guys have done as trolling is, until Clearush's excellent and clear last post, NOONE has given even the slightest indication of recanting their original positions. You said flexhones take too much off so you get rollouts, I offered proof that they don't and instead of arguing that clear point we got into this big snarl, so I'll restate my case.

You can't take off less than a superfine flexhone while accomplishing the task. Even if you did manage to do so, what you accomplished would not be as smooth or work as well.

infamoussmiley,
sorry without putting the little name and comma, I was left to guess who you were talking to.

Rob
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You guys have said your piece we all know how you feel now if we could and answer this guys question.

If you want it honed then I would start by asking the guys here with custom shops, PPS or O'dells might be able to do it also. Another option might be to check with local machine shops or gun smiths. I hope this helps.
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