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Old 05-13-2008, 02:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Angry

Agent Smith,

Chill out. I posted to offer help to original poster, not to fight with you. Besides, the "ask the experts" subforum is where you go to get answers and to help out others, not deal with this bickering.

smiley


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Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Oh good grief.

Which I had already stated IN EVERY ONE of my posts, yes. Why did he repeat it? To suggest I was wrong that's why. Sorry to be so observant, Sly1.
Also, I'M ON MCB, so not every gun I have, has detents that prevent roll out.. especially my Sheridan P68SC. That's why I mention the danger of rollouts in every post and why I wonder now what the reason is people keep bringing it up? I'll calm down immediately the minute anyone shows me a scrap of proof that I'm not right, instead of, as Monty Python(Michael Palin I think) would say, just practicing "the automatic gainsay of everything the other person says". Besides I tried calm the last 2 times I got trolled like this and it didn't work.


Clearush, show me some data, ANY DATA AT ALL.
I have plenty to show you that says you are dead wrong. See Deep Blue( Automags.Org Online Forums - Deep Blue), hear what Glenn Palmer has to say, read the data I linked you to on Brush research's site and THEN argue with me. Because right now all I'm getting from anyone is "NUH-UH", which I can get from my little granddaughter and she's cuter than you(no offense, but I'm prejudiced ).

Oh, and Sly1,

what do you base this on, other than the urge to defend people you like against people you dont know, exactly?
"fairly centered"???
How much does a flexhone, which by the way come in FOUR different grits for paintball barrels take off per pass?
you don't have any idea, so why are we arguing?
With the levigated alumina extra fine that I suggested it took me 30 PASSES to get from .691 to .693. So I went point .002 with 30, so 2 would do... That's right, an amount so small you'd need a serious set of measuring devices to find out it was done at all, except for the fact that your gun will shoot better.

EDIT: InfamousSmiley,
How is this possible exactly?
Rob
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:50 PM   #22 (permalink)
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It was a combination of your being slightly too vague and my not DEFINITELY having enough experience with cocker terminology to get what you were saying, clearush. Trust me, I'm not 'to slow'. If you had started with this:
Quote:
detents in closed bolt markers prevent double feeding they do not prevent roll outs! the only thing in a closed bolt marker that will prevent roll outs are palmer wedgits and a barrel matched to the paint
we wouldn't have disagreed on anything except when you said this:
Quote:
And unless you have a gouge in the barrel that is busting paint a shotgun swab with some brasso chucked into a power drill can make that bore look shiney and pretty for a cost of $8-$10 total cost with brasso left over to do it again. Flexhone could be a good thing but it may not be nessecary.
I apologize for misconstruing both cocker construction and your original post. So please forgive an old man and replace the word detent where I've used it inappropriately with the word 'wedgits' and then everything I said, I'll stand by.

Including the fact that the reason that I refer to what you guys have done as trolling is, until Clearush's excellent and clear last post, NOONE has given even the slightest indication of recanting their original positions. You said flexhones take too much off so you get rollouts, I offered proof that they don't and instead of arguing that clear point we got into this big snarl, so I'll restate my case.

You can't take off less than a superfine flexhone while accomplishing the task. Even if you did manage to do so, what you accomplished would not be as smooth or work as well.

infamoussmiley,
sorry without putting the little name and comma, I was left to guess who you were talking to.

Rob
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You guys have said your piece we all know how you feel now if we could and answer this guys question.

If you want it honed then I would start by asking the guys here with custom shops, PPS or O'dells might be able to do it also. Another option might be to check with local machine shops or gun smiths. I hope this helps.
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:45 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Ha ha
fun stuff. My .2 cents? I own a .690 PPS with wedgits and a .685, no wedgits . Accuracy? about the same. efficiency - now thats another story I have almost a full turn difference and a reg adjustment to bring the same paint from 290 in the .685 to 290 in the .690. Ball breakage- more breaks in the big bore with wedgits. I stuck with the .685 and keep the big guy around for an unusually large batch of paint. I have a plethora of barrels - I find the differently sized backs Ie: python, freak, to be a waste of time and consistantly not as accurate. Brasso and a shotgun swab did wonders for a couple of old SL II's I picked up - Shiney = good. Less friction is always better. the argument will never end though.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I certainly didn't have any of this in mind when I posted originally and I apologize to Andrewliu6294 for the many twists and turns such a simple answer as I gave has taken.

My suggestion is probably painfully obvious, but I concur with GreenMtnPhantom, that contacting Rainman, Palmers or any of the other great airsmiths on here would work also. I won't mention what I think they'll use to do the job

Drcemento,
I hope that you're wrong about the argument never ending, I have to go to work!
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Last edited by agentSmith; 05-13-2008 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Thanks for the advice everyone. Don't worry about the sidetracking, it happens.

Anyway, I stuck a swab in a drill for the time being, and spun the thing inside the barrel with aluminum polish for a couple minutes. It's looking much shiner, with all of the smaller scratches gone, but the larger ones still remain. Should work better now.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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smith, this just occured to me... are you by any chance connected to the flex hone company?

btw, what you have been doing is in each and every way trolling to the full extent of the word.

A battle swab or rod with cloth on the end, and some fine grit rouge is a common, practical, and easy way to quickly re-finish a barrel, and while your flexhones may be superior some how (can be debated.. but obviously you react heavily to the slightlest inclination of doubt, so I won't go there) they may not be the way this person chooses...


and yeah, I did defend Jordans post.. and you might take a little time to think out all the possible reasons... (perhaps he was correct) instead of spending hours creating posts that directly challange the mcb collective members trying to help.

so yeah, state your information simply and quickly, do not discredit someone elses, and move on..

I will stand by, that cloth on a dowel with mothers mag or tripoli will be a cheap and effective way to polish the bore of a barrel.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Craig used the glass barrel trick. Mostly for giggles, and yes, someone paid him to do it (not a paintball related venture).
Tom combined some basic physic formulas with the seat of his pants to determine weather low pressure or high pressure had any effects on accuracy.
Neither were conclusive, or related to how scratches in a barrel will effect a paintball launch.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
A good thing I agree UNLESS the marker has this new thing called a 'detent' or another new invention you mentioned called a 'wedgit', I WILL correct you, however, that rollouts are not any good in an open bolt marker either.

I mention rollouts in every post so what's your point exactly?
As for:

unles you're a terminator, you will not be able to get the precision that the self centering and selftensioning flexhone gets. $40 AND THEY LAST 20 YEARS IS PENNIES A BARREL!!!!

Listen, it's not my mission to go around poking holes in WGP's silver dollar pinata, but I won't be trolled into silence by repeated comments about sewer pipe or SEPERATE issues like phases of the moon or rollout.
Andrewliu6294 did not ask about rollouts Clearush. Had he I would've suggested getting a smaller barrel.

WGP doesn't even enter my world, they don't make a pistol, so they might as well make lawnmowers, I could care less about them. However, I won't have people with bad or no data insinuate I'm a liar. Everytime B has trolled me I've given him the links to REAL data, he's never read a word of any of it or I would've gotten an apologetic PM by now. Deep Blue is waiting for him and the rest of you over at AO.org, let Tom Kaye call you guys liars instead of me.

I made the shot in that vid and every other shot I've made for the last 5 years, including 12 eliminations in a SPPL Finals game in Oklahoma last year, using a $120 Armotech zeus and then a $120 Miltec G2 pistol, both with .691 barrels flexhoned to .693.
Our 15 man(10players onfield, 5 subs) team took second in the michigan SPPL qualifier behind the Gardners and Darryl Trent with Smart Corps and took 10th overall out of 80 national teams with me as the onfield commander in all but 3 games(the onfield commander can't be subbed). My team believes in my pistol because they see things they don't want to believe all the time and it's NOT because Hong Kong makes magic barrels it's because I honed them.

The detent in my cheezy pistols wouldn't work for smaller paint when I got it, so ironically I use a Cooper-T COCKER detent that I modded on there, so I know a cocker detent is equal to the task if it's installed to it's maximum depth. I can now bench-rest shoot a mixed mag of .689 and .685 paint with noone able to tell what order I loaded them into the mag.

Rob 'can you tell I'm on Prednisone' Smith
Sorry to continue this.. I just feel I have to get my word in, as 2 pages happened while I was gone. Yes, I DID read it, I just want to clear up some things.

Cocker Detents are only to keep more than one ball from going into the chamber; once the bolt goes back forward the bolt is holding the detent back. All of the guns you are talking about have a detent inside of them, that keeps the ball from rolling out. If a Cocker had an open bolt it would have detents in the same place. Just because your open bolt marker has cocker detents doesn't mean they function the same as a closed bolt cocker.

I never said(or insinuated) that you where a liar. I'm sorry that I misread your post. Your whole post was about you and your open bolt markers!

Of course, this whole 2 page mini-thread jacking could be over nothing... The OP never said if he was even shooting a Cocker.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly1 View Post
smith, this just occured to me... are you by any chance connected to the flex hone company?

btw, what you have been doing is in each and every way trolling to the full extent of the word.

A battle swab or rod with cloth on the end, and some fine grit rouge is a common, practical, and easy way to quickly re-finish a barrel, and while your flexhones may be superior some how (can be debated.. but obviously you react heavily to the slightlest inclination of doubt, so I won't go there) they may not be the way this person chooses...


and yeah, I did defend Jordans post.. and you might take a little time to think out all the possible reasons... (perhaps he was correct) instead of spending hours creating posts that directly challange the mcb collective members trying to help.

so yeah, state your information simply and quickly, do not discredit someone elses, and move on..

I will stand by, that cloth on a dowel with mothers mag or tripoli will be a cheap and effective way to polish the bore of a barrel.
The most amusing thing about this post is how badly you've busted and dated yourself. Had you followed the link to Brush Research, you would've realized that they are an international conglomerate that could CARE LESS if they had sold the FIRST paintball flexhone and still could care less today. When I bought a new superfine last year(I'm still using my old one though), they made me create a business account and have a $50 minimum order(they've redone their website nicely since and that stuff is no longer required I guess).
My son works for a racing custom shop called Livernois MotorSports and they go through more 'berryhones' as they call them in a month than paintballers have bought in the last fifteen years(not a word from me, they had them when he started!).
Part two is that during the Sheridan/Nelspot era, when there WERE NO removable barrels, pretty much every tourney player and airsmith in the whole country had the 'airsmith kit' from flexhone as I remember. At Hell Survivors they have a set that is older than most of the players(with half the berries missing!) that still work fine. With the dawn of removable barrels everyone forgot about them, because as I said BR never did care for what was to them just an annoyance.
Now to me, not even paying attention to my posts or checking out any of the links I provided and coming up with the classic 'you're being paid' chestnut, is trolling.

You think whether flexhones are superior can be debated because you didn't read ANYTHING I linked and remain in the dark. Please if you consider yourself a reasonable person go here:
Brush Research Manufacturing: Brush Literature
and check out the electron microscope pictures of the surface finish acheived even with fixed hones on piston walls versus the finish put on by flexhones and tell me again you think you can get something that smooth with a big Qtip.

I guess I'm unclear how I can 'state my information simply and quickly and not discredit someone elses', when that person is by implication CALLING ME A LIAR! Saying that flexhones are no more effective than shotgun swabs is a direct contradiction of what I said IN MY FIRST POST in this thread(saying the best suggestion I had was a flexhone, NOT A SWAB) and every post after that, so I've been trolled wrongly for three pages now by people WHO DIDN'T EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE.

Heh-heh,
Does Hoppes pay you to hawk subpar shotgun swabs? I don't think so and wouldn't have even jested about it except for the rude start to your post. Because it's silly.

The 'MCB collective members' as you have so grandly appointed the few members in this thread bashing me(does Carter know?) are wrong. Numbers don't make you right, at one time the 'collective wisdom' was that the earth was flat with dragons at the edge, they were all wrong too.

Pizzaluvr,
Not a problem in the slightest! None of this especially upsets me, it's more of a stubborn streak that won't let people give wrong data as fact if I can help it.
I regret not speaking cocker better and clarifying that a 'wedgit' is in fact Palmer's brand name for their BARREL DETENT.
seperate from a 'ball detent' but a detent nevertheless.
That little usage problem snarled this whole thread right up.

Splattttttt,
I did mention the 'line of nail polish down the barrel' that acts just like a flatline as my reasoning for thinking linear scratches cause spin which hurts accuracy. Crossing scratches would ,I think, be worse as they sometimes contact bare side and sometimes catch seams.

Andrewliu6294,
If you ever come to Hell Survivors in Michigan for any big game or scenario, I'll flexhone that barrel for free and if you're not happy, I'll buy you two to replace it. In fact, if you're not happy with the remaining scratches, just PM me for my address and pay to ship it to me, I'll pay to ship it back and still give a two barrel gaurantee.
Working for flexhone that still cracks me up!

Rob
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