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Old 05-13-2008, 03:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Ha ha
fun stuff. My .2 cents? I own a .690 PPS with wedgits and a .685, no wedgits . Accuracy? about the same. efficiency - now thats another story I have almost a full turn difference and a reg adjustment to bring the same paint from 290 in the .685 to 290 in the .690. Ball breakage- more breaks in the big bore with wedgits. I stuck with the .685 and keep the big guy around for an unusually large batch of paint. I have a plethora of barrels - I find the differently sized backs Ie: python, freak, to be a waste of time and consistantly not as accurate. Brasso and a shotgun swab did wonders for a couple of old SL II's I picked up - Shiney = good. Less friction is always better. the argument will never end though.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I certainly didn't have any of this in mind when I posted originally and I apologize to Andrewliu6294 for the many twists and turns such a simple answer as I gave has taken.

My suggestion is probably painfully obvious, but I concur with GreenMtnPhantom, that contacting Rainman, Palmers or any of the other great airsmiths on here would work also. I won't mention what I think they'll use to do the job

Drcemento,
I hope that you're wrong about the argument never ending, I have to go to work!
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Last edited by agentSmith; 05-13-2008 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Thanks for the advice everyone. Don't worry about the sidetracking, it happens.

Anyway, I stuck a swab in a drill for the time being, and spun the thing inside the barrel with aluminum polish for a couple minutes. It's looking much shiner, with all of the smaller scratches gone, but the larger ones still remain. Should work better now.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:14 PM   #24 (permalink)
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smith, this just occured to me... are you by any chance connected to the flex hone company?

btw, what you have been doing is in each and every way trolling to the full extent of the word.

A battle swab or rod with cloth on the end, and some fine grit rouge is a common, practical, and easy way to quickly re-finish a barrel, and while your flexhones may be superior some how (can be debated.. but obviously you react heavily to the slightlest inclination of doubt, so I won't go there) they may not be the way this person chooses...


and yeah, I did defend Jordans post.. and you might take a little time to think out all the possible reasons... (perhaps he was correct) instead of spending hours creating posts that directly challange the mcb collective members trying to help.

so yeah, state your information simply and quickly, do not discredit someone elses, and move on..

I will stand by, that cloth on a dowel with mothers mag or tripoli will be a cheap and effective way to polish the bore of a barrel.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Craig used the glass barrel trick. Mostly for giggles, and yes, someone paid him to do it (not a paintball related venture).
Tom combined some basic physic formulas with the seat of his pants to determine weather low pressure or high pressure had any effects on accuracy.
Neither were conclusive, or related to how scratches in a barrel will effect a paintball launch.
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mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
tlane77 I think for a non-chemical chubby it's 6 hours before its time to see a doctor. So you should be good for another couple hours.
splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
tlane77 He's got a woody for your woods.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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A good thing I agree UNLESS the marker has this new thing called a 'detent' or another new invention you mentioned called a 'wedgit', I WILL correct you, however, that rollouts are not any good in an open bolt marker either.

I mention rollouts in every post so what's your point exactly?
As for:

unles you're a terminator, you will not be able to get the precision that the self centering and selftensioning flexhone gets. $40 AND THEY LAST 20 YEARS IS PENNIES A BARREL!!!!

Listen, it's not my mission to go around poking holes in WGP's silver dollar pinata, but I won't be trolled into silence by repeated comments about sewer pipe or SEPERATE issues like phases of the moon or rollout.
Andrewliu6294 did not ask about rollouts Clearush. Had he I would've suggested getting a smaller barrel.

WGP doesn't even enter my world, they don't make a pistol, so they might as well make lawnmowers, I could care less about them. However, I won't have people with bad or no data insinuate I'm a liar. Everytime B has trolled me I've given him the links to REAL data, he's never read a word of any of it or I would've gotten an apologetic PM by now. Deep Blue is waiting for him and the rest of you over at AO.org, let Tom Kaye call you guys liars instead of me.

I made the shot in that vid and every other shot I've made for the last 5 years, including 12 eliminations in a SPPL Finals game in Oklahoma last year, using a $120 Armotech zeus and then a $120 Miltec G2 pistol, both with .691 barrels flexhoned to .693.
Our 15 man(10players onfield, 5 subs) team took second in the michigan SPPL qualifier behind the Gardners and Darryl Trent with Smart Corps and took 10th overall out of 80 national teams with me as the onfield commander in all but 3 games(the onfield commander can't be subbed). My team believes in my pistol because they see things they don't want to believe all the time and it's NOT because Hong Kong makes magic barrels it's because I honed them.

The detent in my cheezy pistols wouldn't work for smaller paint when I got it, so ironically I use a Cooper-T COCKER detent that I modded on there, so I know a cocker detent is equal to the task if it's installed to it's maximum depth. I can now bench-rest shoot a mixed mag of .689 and .685 paint with noone able to tell what order I loaded them into the mag.

Rob 'can you tell I'm on Prednisone' Smith
Sorry to continue this.. I just feel I have to get my word in, as 2 pages happened while I was gone. Yes, I DID read it, I just want to clear up some things.

Cocker Detents are only to keep more than one ball from going into the chamber; once the bolt goes back forward the bolt is holding the detent back. All of the guns you are talking about have a detent inside of them, that keeps the ball from rolling out. If a Cocker had an open bolt it would have detents in the same place. Just because your open bolt marker has cocker detents doesn't mean they function the same as a closed bolt cocker.

I never said(or insinuated) that you where a liar. I'm sorry that I misread your post. Your whole post was about you and your open bolt markers!

Of course, this whole 2 page mini-thread jacking could be over nothing... The OP never said if he was even shooting a Cocker.
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Old 05-14-2008, 09:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sly1 View Post
smith, this just occured to me... are you by any chance connected to the flex hone company?

btw, what you have been doing is in each and every way trolling to the full extent of the word.

A battle swab or rod with cloth on the end, and some fine grit rouge is a common, practical, and easy way to quickly re-finish a barrel, and while your flexhones may be superior some how (can be debated.. but obviously you react heavily to the slightlest inclination of doubt, so I won't go there) they may not be the way this person chooses...


and yeah, I did defend Jordans post.. and you might take a little time to think out all the possible reasons... (perhaps he was correct) instead of spending hours creating posts that directly challange the mcb collective members trying to help.

so yeah, state your information simply and quickly, do not discredit someone elses, and move on..

I will stand by, that cloth on a dowel with mothers mag or tripoli will be a cheap and effective way to polish the bore of a barrel.
The most amusing thing about this post is how badly you've busted and dated yourself. Had you followed the link to Brush Research, you would've realized that they are an international conglomerate that could CARE LESS if they had sold the FIRST paintball flexhone and still could care less today. When I bought a new superfine last year(I'm still using my old one though), they made me create a business account and have a $50 minimum order(they've redone their website nicely since and that stuff is no longer required I guess).
My son works for a racing custom shop called Livernois MotorSports and they go through more 'berryhones' as they call them in a month than paintballers have bought in the last fifteen years(not a word from me, they had them when he started!).
Part two is that during the Sheridan/Nelspot era, when there WERE NO removable barrels, pretty much every tourney player and airsmith in the whole country had the 'airsmith kit' from flexhone as I remember. At Hell Survivors they have a set that is older than most of the players(with half the berries missing!) that still work fine. With the dawn of removable barrels everyone forgot about them, because as I said BR never did care for what was to them just an annoyance.
Now to me, not even paying attention to my posts or checking out any of the links I provided and coming up with the classic 'you're being paid' chestnut, is trolling.

You think whether flexhones are superior can be debated because you didn't read ANYTHING I linked and remain in the dark. Please if you consider yourself a reasonable person go here:
Brush Research Manufacturing: Brush Literature
and check out the electron microscope pictures of the surface finish acheived even with fixed hones on piston walls versus the finish put on by flexhones and tell me again you think you can get something that smooth with a big Qtip.

I guess I'm unclear how I can 'state my information simply and quickly and not discredit someone elses', when that person is by implication CALLING ME A LIAR! Saying that flexhones are no more effective than shotgun swabs is a direct contradiction of what I said IN MY FIRST POST in this thread(saying the best suggestion I had was a flexhone, NOT A SWAB) and every post after that, so I've been trolled wrongly for three pages now by people WHO DIDN'T EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE.

Heh-heh,
Does Hoppes pay you to hawk subpar shotgun swabs? I don't think so and wouldn't have even jested about it except for the rude start to your post. Because it's silly.

The 'MCB collective members' as you have so grandly appointed the few members in this thread bashing me(does Carter know?) are wrong. Numbers don't make you right, at one time the 'collective wisdom' was that the earth was flat with dragons at the edge, they were all wrong too.

Pizzaluvr,
Not a problem in the slightest! None of this especially upsets me, it's more of a stubborn streak that won't let people give wrong data as fact if I can help it.
I regret not speaking cocker better and clarifying that a 'wedgit' is in fact Palmer's brand name for their BARREL DETENT.
seperate from a 'ball detent' but a detent nevertheless.
That little usage problem snarled this whole thread right up.

Splattttttt,
I did mention the 'line of nail polish down the barrel' that acts just like a flatline as my reasoning for thinking linear scratches cause spin which hurts accuracy. Crossing scratches would ,I think, be worse as they sometimes contact bare side and sometimes catch seams.

Andrewliu6294,
If you ever come to Hell Survivors in Michigan for any big game or scenario, I'll flexhone that barrel for free and if you're not happy, I'll buy you two to replace it. In fact, if you're not happy with the remaining scratches, just PM me for my address and pay to ship it to me, I'll pay to ship it back and still give a two barrel gaurantee.
Working for flexhone that still cracks me up!

Rob
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:15 AM   #28 (permalink)
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To Summarize:
  1. B you are wrong
  2. Flex Honing is better then ghetto swab method
  3. agentSmith is not connected with Brush Research
  4. Detents do not prevent rollouts on closed bolt guns


P.S.
Flex honing is great can be overdone if you use the wrong ones too long but I would not consider it [flex honing] necessary for minor wear marks. Given the imperfections in paint minor scratches and wear marks the effects on a PB would be insignificant compared to some of the typical imperfections in the paint. If you want to hone your barrel buy your own it's cheap and you'll have it available for near ever. By the way it is not rocket science to do, it is very simple.
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Old 05-14-2008, 10:33 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
The most amusing thing about this post is how badly you've busted and dated yourself. Had you followed the link to Brush Research, you would've realized that they are an international conglomerate that could CARE LESS if they had sold the FIRST paintball flexhone and still could care less today. When I bought a new superfine last year(I'm still using my old one though), they made me create a business account and have a $50 minimum order(they've redone their website nicely since and that stuff is no longer required I guess).
My son works for a racing custom shop called Livernois MotorSports and they go through more 'berryhones' as they call them in a month than paintballers have bought in the last fifteen years(not a word from me, they had them when he started!).
Part two is that during the Sheridan/Nelspot era, when there WERE NO removable barrels, pretty much every tourney player and airsmith in the whole country had the 'airsmith kit' from flexhone as I remember. At Hell Survivors they have a set that is older than most of the players(with half the berries missing!) that still work fine. With the dawn of removable barrels everyone forgot about them, because as I said BR never did care for what was to them just an annoyance.
Now to me, not even paying attention to my posts or checking out any of the links I provided and coming up with the classic 'you're being paid' chestnut, is trolling.

You think whether flexhones are superior can be debated because you didn't read ANYTHING I linked and remain in the dark. Please if you consider yourself a reasonable person go here:
Brush Research Manufacturing: Brush Literature
and check out the electron microscope pictures of the surface finish acheived even with fixed hones on piston walls versus the finish put on by flexhones and tell me again you think you can get something that smooth with a big Qtip.

I guess I'm unclear how I can 'state my information simply and quickly and not discredit someone elses', when that person is by implication CALLING ME A LIAR! Saying that flexhones are no more effective than shotgun swabs is a direct contradiction of what I said IN MY FIRST POST in this thread(saying the best suggestion I had was a flexhone, NOT A SWAB) and every post after that, so I've been trolled wrongly for three pages now by people WHO DIDN'T EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE.

Heh-heh,
Does Hoppes pay you to hawk subpar shotgun swabs? I don't think so and wouldn't have even jested about it except for the rude start to your post. Because it's silly.

The 'MCB collective members' as you have so grandly appointed the few members in this thread bashing me(does Carter know?) are wrong. Numbers don't make you right, at one time the 'collective wisdom' was that the earth was flat with dragons at the edge, they were all wrong too.

Pizzaluvr,
Not a problem in the slightest! None of this especially upsets me, it's more of a stubborn streak that won't let people give wrong data as fact if I can help it.
I regret not speaking cocker better and clarifying that a 'wedgit' is in fact Palmer's brand name for their BARREL DETENT.
seperate from a 'ball detent' but a detent nevertheless.
That little usage problem snarled this whole thread right up.

Splattttttt,
I did mention the 'line of nail polish down the barrel' that acts just like a flatline as my reasoning for thinking linear scratches cause spin which hurts accuracy. Crossing scratches would ,I think, be worse as they sometimes contact bare side and sometimes catch seams.

Andrewliu6294,
If you ever come to Hell Survivors in Michigan for any big game or scenario, I'll flexhone that barrel for free and if you're not happy, I'll buy you two to replace it. In fact, if you're not happy with the remaining scratches, just PM me for my address and pay to ship it to me, I'll pay to ship it back and still give a two barrel gaurantee.
Working for flexhone that still cracks me up!

Rob
jesus man, you win.. I don't have time nor drive to argue with a troll...
Flexhones may be superior.. I said that, battle swabs work, I said that, never called you a liar...

reflect on your posts, and you will notice that in every one, you quote someone specifically and bash on their provided information. That is trolling, you have no right to say that you have been "wrongly trolled"

Swabs are easy and cheap!!! thats what I have been saying.. buy a hone if you want..

seriously though "smith" calm down.. and don't be so hypocritical.. someone who doesn't read and grasp someone elses post shouldn't complain about their own..

anyway, I'm done with this thread.. hopefully the threadstarted will have polished barrel with a wanted bore by the time this is through.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:42 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I posted this:
Quote:
On the old 'give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish, feed him for ever' scene, Brush Research's excellent Flexhones are for sale at a fair price. Then you're set for life.
It's pretty simple, a little honing oil on the brush and make a few passes down the barrel with the hone on a hand drill and you're good to go:

Brush research Paintball section
Self centering and self tensioning, they work very well.

I recommend for touching up a barrel like you're doing the Levigated Alumina extra fine, it will take off the least amount of material per pass, and at $36.81 it's cheaper than it was when I bought my first one many years ago.

Rob
and got this:
Quote:
Hone that barrel and you will have a SS sewer pipe, it will be huge bore. As long as the scratches are lateral and nor real odd one they are just fin and in fact help not hinder as the uninformed think. Just give the barrel a quick polish with a Redz battle swab use noting more aggressive than brass or silver polish.
AND I'M A TROLL???

But that's not why I'm posting. I went to my son's work after my previous post and he explained it so simply and clearly, I will try to copy it down as best I can:



This is a flexhone, it is self tensioning, that means that the limbs each berry are mounted on hold the berry against the wall of the cylinder with spring tension. In addition centrifugal force presses the berries even tighter(so slow speed!) so when the hone contacts the depression of a gouge it presses less hard or the ridge of a scratch it presses harder. A soft swab simply caves in and does what Andrewliu6294 observed, mostly polishes the scratches without removing them until you've taken off way more material than a hone would have. So swabs are NOT suitable for this application(meaning the scratches the OP mentions).

Repeatedly calling me a troll doesn't make it true, every time I quoted and rebutted someone elses post, THEY were directly contradicting something I had previously said. It's that you guys ganged up on me forcing me to respond to multiple attacks in every post, so check YOURSELF Sly1, my conscience is clear. so two more quotes and I'll leave this thread for greener pastures:
Sly1 says on page 4:
Quote:
Flexhones may be superior.. I said that, battle swabs work, I said that, never called you a liar...
Sly1 says on page 2:
Quote:
and actually, a battle swab, because of its semetrical shape will stay fairly centered, simply because of the even pressure along its circumfrence.. this is probably the best method for small wear repairs.. not only does it get them out, but it leaves plenty of material in the barrel for it to happen again. your hone will enlarge the bore incredibly each time.. so eventually you get to throw away a barrel..
would the real Sly1 please stand up?

EDIT: Thank you, Grendel!
Rob
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Last edited by agentSmith; 05-14-2008 at 11:46 AM.
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