Paintball

[arpie]

You do know that wikipedia can be 'edited' by any 12-super-agglet with enough common sense to sign up?

Samurai swords are made up of two 'layers'. The core steel layer and the jacket steel layer, although both are steel not iron. Iron ore + Carbon = Steel. The japanese use a 'black sand' called satetsu, which gives it distinctive properties.

Arpie

EDIT: Found a pretty credible site: Blade Forging

[gunman_2000]

last I remember reading back when i really was into things ancient japanese, the best swords, hell most swords, were made from "sand steel". Such beautiful things, I remember seeing a variety of them at the Royal Ontario Museum my last visit. Its a shame that such an art was basically lost when Japan moved into the modern age. Though I'm sure there are some people who still know how to make a proper blade.

It would really be something if you ended up with a classic blade. Perhaps a visit to a local museum could answer some questions?

[sable]

Originally Posted by ThePixelGuru

O rly?

Because me and a friend used to practice with some steel swords (european, not japanese) and we hit them hard enough to draw sparks on more than one occasion. We also used impact grade hickory for our wooden swords because we shattered pretty much any other wood. I don't really have to go out on a limb here to say that it's only certain grades of steel that shatter like that.

EDIT: These are the swords we practiced with.
Arms & Armor
The page says 6150 steel. These were borderline indestructible and carried a lifetime warranty - certainly not "crap."

thats a european swords, not katanas or wakisashi. much different shape and function.

Originally Posted by Morfesto

Wikipedia begs to differ.

Katana construction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like Katanas are made out of steel.

you kidding me? look at the chart a few lines down. it clearly says about 98% iron.

[Railgun]

Pure iron is very brittle or very soft. Neither properties are in any way a good trait for a sword. That's why it is alloyed with carbon and other elements to form it into steel which is a lot more ductile (flexible and formable) and when alloyed the right way can be hardened and tempered. Samurai swords are a highly complex sandwich of irons and steels that have been turned to various types of steel through the actions of the forge and hammer in the folding shaping of the metal and then passed through a special series of heat treatments done with incredable skill and knowledge to achieve the final product.

The basics of the technique are quite well known and you can look them up on the net but as with most things the art of the smith extends the basic recipe to something far more complex.

And yes...

It may well be that you got yourself one of the many military swords produced during the war. Or it could be that you've stumbled on something very worthwhile. The mark you want to check out is located under the grip held in place by a simple dowel. Exposing the tang SHOULD let you see a stamped maker's mark. If it doesn't then it's just a basic replica knockoff. You'll want to take an impression of that mark or scan it and go searching for who the smith or factory was and from there you should be able to find the value of the blade.

[drg]

Originally Posted by sable

you kidding me? look at the chart a few lines down. it clearly says about 98% iron.

Dude. Steel is mostly iron with a few percent carbon added (and possibly other things). Did you even read the article?

There might be something to this "choosing to spell things incorrectly" and basic literacy, or lack thereof.

[sable]

okay. when i said, "made of iron" i didnt mean PURE iron. it is mostly iron. the mixture varies ALOT from smith to smith. its not set into stone.

pure iron would nick and scratch very very easily when struck. the mixture of the metal and the folding/hardening technique is ancient and is the result of decades of testing and learning. the final result comes from the overall technique of heating, folding, heating again, and treating of the metal.

no one will ever be able to reproduce the very same technique used by ancient sword smiths who made great swords and armour. armour and blades made by the japanese and the spanish at toledo. the blades were amazing and the technique is lost. all we can do nowadays is go by what we have learned that has been passed down or read about. in the same way, no one will ever be able to reproduce a Stradivarious violin. Antonio Stradivari had a special way of treating the wood that produced an amazing tonal quality that no other can ever produce. therefore the surviving violins are highly sought after. Japanese master swordsmiths had special techniques that varied alot from smith to smith.

when i said steel was crap i was reffering to the 440c steel repos pushed by companies like BUDK and the like.

and im tired of arguing about how i choose to spell "you". IM NOT STUPID BECAUSE IM DIFFERENT THAN YEU.

[DSA]

Originally Posted by Stuffy

Is it in a shira-saya? Like this?

Very close but very old beat down wood I will get you a photo as soon as possible. I have to tell you my attic/garage/office are all in a real mess. While I was away my wife stuffed everything up there right at the ladder opening I mean everything when it got full she stuffed the garage then the office. It has taken me this long to get our closets in order. I was told by a buddy before I left it was some very hard steel not the kind you can get easily but he had no idea of its value.

" It may well be that you got yourself one of the many military swords produced during the war."

I was actually leaning this direction.

[Railgun]

Exactly, the difference between a fine steel with excellent qualities and the most glass like or butter soft versions of "iron" is only a few % of this and that with carbon being a biggie.

The glass like iron that'll break like fine stemware dropped on a table is actually iron with an excess of carbon in it from not processing it any more than required to get the ore to melt and cool inot a solid. This is often known as "cast iron" and was typically found as old time plumbing pipe used for sewer pipes. It was cheap and easy to cast.

Ductile iron is the opposite extreme where the iron ore has been cleaned of carbon and other "impurities" to where it's a lot closer to 100% iron. This is still tough stuff but it dents easily, bends easily and generally would make a terrible blade of any sort.

Steel is like the baby bear's porridge. It's just the right amount of this and that to form the iron into something that offers the best of both extremes with none of the disadvantages. It ranges from mild steel, which is easily bent and formed, to tool steels of various types to stainless steels. All of which are largely iron with that small handful of additives to turn it into the specialty metals.

[Railgun]

Originally Posted by DSA

Very close but very old beat down wood.....

Those storage sheaths were made from very light and delicate wood in many cases. If it's beaten it's from regular rather than careful handling.

In one book on Samurai swords this was made from paulownia wood which is actually the same hardness and weight as some of the heavier grades of balsa wood. Paulownia is a little less hard and durable than eastern white pine. So if it's dented it would be from storage in less than ideal conditions.

[sable]

Originally Posted by sable

okay. when i said, "made of iron" i didnt mean PURE iron. it is mostly iron. the mixture varies ALOT from smith to smith. its not set into stone.

pure iron would nick and scratch very very easily when struck. the mixture of the metal and the folding/hardening technique is ancient and is the result of decades of testing and learning. the final result comes from the overall technique of heating, folding, heating again, and treating of the metal.

no one will ever be able to reproduce the very same technique used by ancient sword smiths who made great swords and armour. armour and blades made by the japanese and the spanish at toledo. the blades were amazing and the technique is lost. all we can do nowadays is go by what we have learned that has been passed down or read about. in the same way, no one will ever be able to reproduce a Stradivarious violin. Antonio Stradivari had a special way of treating the wood that produced an amazing tonal quality that no other can ever produce. therefore the surviving violins are highly sought after. Japanese master swordsmiths had special techniques that varied alot from smith to smith.

when i said steel was crap i was reffering to the 440c steel repos pushed by companies like BUDK and the like.

and im tired of arguing about how i choose to spell "you". IM NOT STUPID BECAUSE IM DIFFERENT THAN YEU.

bump.