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Old 04-06-2014, 10:52 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I resurrected my Nightmare...and then she leaked

A little back story:
I bought my Nightmare LB Comp back in 2000, and it never worked. The bolt was completely fubar'd: stuck in the breech, and the threads were stripped out. In fact, some enterprising soul had re-tapped that bolt 3 times!

Thanks to Bacci Paintball I acquired a new bolt, so last night I figured it was time to see if I could get the beast working again. I dealt with the lower tube only...polishing the internals and lower receiver with Mothers Mag Polish to make the reassembly a little easier. The valve looked good, the cup seal was clearly indented from the valve face but not cracked, though I didn't dig out the small #009 o-ring and steel washer at the very front of the valve.

It took me 3 tries to reassemble because I couldn't get the valve body's screw holes to align with the body. The fit was very snug, so I couldn't spin the valve around...it either aligned when I tapped it in or I had to do-over. With some trepidation, I gassed it her up...and was able to fire off a dozen (blank) shots! For the first time in 14 years I'd actually got to shoot this thing!!

It was sometime after the happy dance and celebratory beer, that while she was sitting on the table she spontaneously sprung a leak down the barrel, promptly draining the powerlet. So...I figure that the culprit is probably the #009 o-ring inside the valve, being that it was the one I did not check. I might be able to flip the cup seal over, too... So this leaves me with a few questions:

1. Where can I get a new cupseal, should mine require replacement?
2. My Nightmare is missing the spring behind the bolt, and the mainspring is not original, either. Bacci doesn't appear to have these parts...is there a compatible alternative from another gun I could use?
3. I had to replace the two (92421A642) thumbscrews, but the front one is 1/8" too long. I shimmed it with some nylon washers, but is the brass easy to cut down? I don't want to jack up threads on the replacement bolt.

Thanks, guys!!
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First off, congrats! And I'm sorry. Lol.

1. MorueM is a member on here. I think he can make them. I have a genuine one and one or 2 of his seals. I believe stingray seals are also the same, but hopefully someone can verify that. In that case, ebay.

2. The bolt spring is not necessary. But if you want one, use the bolt spring part number in the Nightmare info sticky thread and go to McMaster Carr. I got one from there. Warning - they are about $5 a piece, not including shipping.

Mainspring. Basically the same, grab the number from the sticky thread and go to McMaster Carr.

3. Yes, you can grind, sand, or file down the thumbscrews to a better length. Brass is relatively soft, so it goes quicker than steel or stainless steel. Just make sure you leave a good starting thread and try the screw in a steel, zinc, stainless nut or something first to make sure you dont jack up the threads in the hammer or bolt. Actually the brass thumbscrews I picked up from McMaster Carr had to be trimmed also.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks! That is very helpful!
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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UPDATE:
Thanks to a new cupseal, I finally stopped the leak down the barrel. I also discovered the valve was completely missing the little o-ring inside of it! So I replaced all of that, and re-assembled, and gassed it up.

...Which was when I discovered a fast leak from the upper chamber. OK....When I removed the "Co2 Punching Pin Housing" (great name...) the 2 o-rings totally disintigrated. I replaced those, cleaned 25 years of grunge from the filter, and re-assembled. This time, when I gas it up, there's a slow leak out the back of the valve (in front of the hammer). ARGH.

I'm assuming the rear o-ring on the valve body must be nicked...right?

Thanks!

(I really appreciate the challenge of this beast...it will make it's eventual repair all the sweeter!)

Last edited by GattoDiavolo; 05-05-2014 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Continuity
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GattoDiavolo View Post
UPDATE:
Thanks to a new cupseal, I finally stopped the leak down the barrel. I also discovered the valve was completely missing the little o-ring inside of it! So I replaced all of that, and re-assembled, and gassed it up.

...Which was when I discovered a fast leak from the upper chamber. OK....When I removed the "Co2 Punching Pin Housing" (great name...) the 2 o-rings totally disintigrated. I replaced those, cleaned 25 years of grunge from the filter, and re-assembled. This time, when I gas it up, there's a slow leak out the back of the valve (in front of the hammer). ARGH.

I'm assuming the rear o-ring on the valve body must be nicked...right?

Thanks!

(I really appreciate the challenge of this beast...it will make it's eventual repair all the sweeter!)
If you are extremely unlucky, the seating surface of the lower tube itself could be damaged. Seems more likely however that the o-ring was damaged. I've managed to take mine out 3 or 4 times on the same o-rings, but they are starting to show the damage.
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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UPDATE

Firstly, I have 2 little kids who tend to keep me away from my personal projects, but today I unpacked the metric o-rings I bought and set about trying to unravel this persistent valve leak. Hooray!

Using a bucket of water, and immersing the gun, I verified that the leak is from the back of the valve, right in front of the hammer. In under 10 seconds, the 12gram is emptied, so it's a fast leak! I charged the gun under two conditions: First, uncocked. The second time, cocked, figuring that maybe the hammer was holding the valve open. Same results both times.

I stripped down the lower tube internals and grip frame and dried everything thoroughly. The valve o-rings were chewed up from disassembly, but everything else looked alright. I did purchase a few cup seals from MorueM a few months back, and have one installed. These new cup seals have a flat face (versus the old one I took out, which was cupped), and I'm not sure if the valve stem is sealing as tight as can be against it.

I hand-polished off some nicks and burrs from the outside of the valve body, and put the 14mm x 2.5mm Buna-70 orings on it. I then took a small rag and a dowel and applied some Mother's Mag Polish (again by hand) to the rear lower chamber to try to smooth out some of the rough edges around the set screw holes. I reassembled the whole thing, using generous amounts of oil (ACI AirLube).

And...Exact. Same. Leak.
Damn.

At this point, I'm beginning to doubt whether I can fix this. It pains me to ask this, but would one of you guys be willing to take a look at this gun? I'll happily pay shipping both ways, but it's killing me to be so close to having this piece of history slinging paint again, and failing every time.

Thanks
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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if you would like, I would be willing to check it out, but there are no guarantees. At all. I have 2 very young kids myself, so I completely understand the lack of free time. That's also part of the equation sending it to me. I cannot even give you a timeframe. All that said, I am willing to look at it. If you still would like to pursue it, Send me a PM.

Now, you say it leaks out the back of the valve? Out by where the valve pin is or around the valve body/gun body area?

Did you replace the small Oring in the base of the valve? It's a 009 Oring. It sits under a metal washer. You usually need a pick or small screwdriver to get the washer to pop free.

Also, can you push the valve pin down by hand when the valve is all together or is it extremely difficult? We are still figuring these guns out. Some have lighter valve springs, but most are very heavy. There is a chance the valve spring is too weak. I doubt this though.

Lastly, check out one of my latest posts of my thread - nightmare on mcb street. I have had success using a CCI phantom cup seal and another Oring in the valve body to replace the oddball crosman seal.
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I re-read through the previous posts, and thought that I'd best summarize what I've done all in one place:
1. Bolt: Replaced bolt, added bolt spring
2. Valve: New cup seal, new orings (incl the 009 under the metal washer), exterior polish
3. Hammer: Exterior polish
4. Pierce Pin Assembly: New orings
5. Body: Polished upper and lower receiver
6. Misc: New thumbscrews

All polishing was done by hand (no Dremel).

The valve pin can be pushed down by hand, but it requires considerable force. I'm going to say I have the "very heavy" valve spring.

The 14mm x 2.5mm orings on the valve certainly made reassembly easier. I can't tell if there is a leak around these orings, or whether the leak is out the back of the valve body around the stem. The gas blows snowflakes out the hammer slot, just in front of the hammer. I could look into the CCI Phantom cup seal and 012 oring combo...you mentioned that it was a "well used" cup seal. Do you think that made a difference?

Also, the pump action is extremely stiff. The pump action was almost non-existent (original bolt was basically destroyed) when I got the gun, so it has improved some, but it still takes a lot of effort.
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Old 01-25-2015, 12:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'd also be willing to look at it for you, I take Nightmares apart just for the heck of it now
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Old 01-25-2015, 01:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GattoDiavolo View Post
I re-read through the previous posts, and thought that I'd best summarize what I've done all in one place:
1. Bolt: Replaced bolt, added bolt spring
2. Valve: New cup seal, new orings (incl the 009 under the metal washer), exterior polish
3. Hammer: Exterior polish
4. Pierce Pin Assembly: New orings
5. Body: Polished upper and lower receiver
6. Misc: New thumbscrews

All polishing was done by hand (no Dremel).

The valve pin can be pushed down by hand, but it requires considerable force. I'm going to say I have the "very heavy" valve spring.

The 14mm x 2.5mm orings on the valve certainly made reassembly easier. I can't tell if there is a leak around these orings, or whether the leak is out the back of the valve body around the stem. The gas blows snowflakes out the hammer slot, just in front of the hammer. I could look into the CCI Phantom cup seal and 012 oring combo...you mentioned that it was a "well used" cup seal. Do you think that made a difference?

Also, the pump action is extremely stiff. The pump action was almost non-existent (original bolt was basically destroyed) when I got the gun, so it has improved some, but it still takes a lot of effort.
The pump action shouldn't be stiff, I'm guessing your power tube is bent. Once the tube is bent the valve has to be installed with the bend upward or the bolt will bind up in the lower tube. That bend can occur from improper removal I think, there is the possibility that your lower tube has damage that could be causing your issues.
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