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Old 06-25-2013, 11:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I wonder if you might be getting hammer bounce and losing efficiency that way. What mainspring and valve spring are you using?
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jello78 View Post
it definitely rolls out but i try to shoot on an upward angel to it get the full potential shot out.
See, there's your problem right there. Shooting at an upward angle accomplishes nothing, as the problem is gas is blowing past the pellet ("blow by") as it travels down your barrel, just like Greenmtn has indicated. As I mentioned, blow by is the primary cause for poor efficiency in any gun.

35 shots per 12-gram on an unmodified Phantom is unrealistic. Depending on paint size and temperature, you should be getting at least 18/20 useable shots per 12-gram on an unmodified Phantom - more on a really hot day. Lelands are the way to go for 12-grams.

While you will see an improvement in efficiency using inserts, they are not the optimal solution (despite what some may tell you). A one-piece, sized-bore barrel is the single best option for obtaining both accuracy and efficiency (as far as eliminating blow by is concerned). Inserts only eliminate the initial blow by of gas, but still allow some of the "tail end" gas to blow by the pellet after the pellet passes the insert. Obviously, this is especially true for large bore barrels (.685 and larger) with small size inserts. I have found the Lapco .681 to be one of the best one-piece barrels for the Phantom for today's paint, and .680 seems to be the optimal size. I see a lot of barrel breaks with my .678 Flasc due to it being too tight, but my .681 Flasc and Lapco shoot with zero problems.

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Originally Posted by Have Blue View Post
I wonder if you might be getting hammer bounce and losing efficiency that way. What mainspring and valve spring are you using?
He's using stock springs. Given the fact that he's having roll outs, his barrel seems to be the primary culprit here.

If your gun is older, and you want to replace your springs, just replace your valve spring. A weaker stock main spring isn't a bad thing. You want a heavy valve spring and lighter main spring to reduce "dwell". Dwell is the amount of time that the valve is open. Theoretically, less dwell time should equal more efficiency. I use the CCI blue main spring (15% lighter than the stock spring) in some of my Phantoms, and they perform well.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i just shot it in the backyard with a .684 freak sleeve in my SSC bored phantom barrel. now i got 32 shots off a c02 gram before it started to dip. I guess my paint to barrel was better. but if i threw a harder spring in my phantom, and turn the velocity down to 275fps, wouldnt that help my air efficiency?
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i just shot it in the backyard with a .684 freak sleeve in my SSC bored phantom barrel. now i got 32 shots off a c02 gram before it started to dip. I guess my paint to barrel was better. but if i threw a harder spring in my phantom, and turn the velocity down to 275fps, wouldnt that help my air efficiency?
Turning down the velocity will always help efficiency, but remember, you want a heavier valve spring, not main spring. The only place I know of that sells heavy valve springs is Madman productions - using their Autococker spring kit. CCI only sells the stock valve spring. I haven't found a real need to use a heavy valve spring, and have not tried the Madman kit. Maybe someone else can chime in on if the Autococker springs work as is, or if they need to be cut. Also, what springs from the kit would be best to use, how well they perform, etc.

Madman Spring Kits - $11 plus shipping per kit.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Glad you figured out the problem.

A little leg work reading up in that link I posted last page will anser all your tuning questions.
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Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Slim View Post
35 shots per 12-gram on an unmodified Phantom is unrealistic. Depending on paint size and temperature, you should be getting at least 18/20 useable shots per 12-gram on an unmodified Phantom - more on a really hot day. Lelands are the way to go for 12-grams.
I would assume you're considering a bored barrel "modified." I got 38-40 shots per 12ie on my girlfriends unmodified Phantom (other than barrel) multiple times.
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