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Old 09-26-2012, 10:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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yup.. which mean you have to can a 12 gram each time.. i need build the reg tester i want

well. the more i think about it.. i could just drill and tap the bottom of a 12 gram to 1/8ths npt, connect a bottomline via a piece of SS braided line.. and then at least im not trashing a 12 gram every time (course i wouldnt run it that way full time but for testing purposes, that would be damn handy)... now i need to go buy a tap..

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Old 09-27-2012, 07:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Tracker - they make 12 gram dummies for this application still - a little more meat in them than the walls of a 12ie.

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Old 09-27-2012, 09:37 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Damn you guys now I want to do a stock class T2
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyd View Post
Yoda made it work, I couldn't. I ran 4 or 5 through my T-2 with a bucket changer into the on/off. The first 12 gram I literally got over 40 shots. The second 12 gram was barely 33/35 and it went down from there. Along with velocity. The last 12 gram was 20 shots maybe and I could throw the paint harder. I was using crossmans and when I pulled the gun apart the hammer was all sticky? So I have not tried again. I have an S-5 body I want to build up as an unregged SC gun. But I will never run 12 grams through my T-2 again. Feyd..........
SO after a little Google-Fu, I find that Crosman 12ies are actually manufactured with oil in them, allegedly to lubricate the internals of standard air guns. I don't like this. I certainly don't want anything on my hammer... Is there a better product? (imagine: Another PAINTBALL specific product!)

Wikipedia link: Crosman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Any opinions of CCM's Cram-n-Jam?
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I'd always taken it as read that the crossman ones contained a little oil, but then I started in airguns before paintball. Pretty much any others apart from crossman ones don't have the oil although I don't see it causing harm.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talfuchre View Post
Tracker - they make 12 gram dummies for this application still - a little more meat in them than the walls of a 12ie.

TF
i know they do.. but to i really want to buy one for $20ish if it will never see more than 450PSI and be only used for testing purposes??

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Any opinions of CCM's Cram-n-Jam?
its a cram and jam, it works as advertised. the only dawback is 1o rounders are flimsy as all getout.. if you take a shot to the 12 gram.. it will explode, along with all the paint in it.. they are just as long at the Stock class tubes, so there's no savings there.. they are perfect if you want stock class on a smaller budget/cant find a stock class tube.. and dont mind the potential catastrophic failure thats inherent to all 10 round tubes

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Old 09-27-2012, 12:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Adjusting the CART is a b*tch, but I've got a 12g dummy all set and a bleed valve downstream. It's just a matter of getting the CART -> 12g changer.

With an old old old sniper I have pretty good luck getting >35shots / 12g, so I know in principle they can work well (I've had much better luck with that sniper than my phantoms).

Of course, the T2 is very much NOT an old sniper. I'm thinking a devolumizer is a seriously good idea, so I'm gonna fiddle around in the junk bin and see if I can't find some shell casings I've been saving for such a purpose (or I'll just use some copper tubing).

Thanks for all your input guys. Especially Tracker! Very nice setup, hope you get it working as you'd like soon! I take it you ran your setup with the stock valve?

I'm more tempted to using the CART 12g changer in combo with a mid-pressure LT pps valve. In my experience CCM main valves are rock solid, but that's especially with hpa (I'm sure they do well on co2 and especially a/s co2). But I'm hesitant to use it in conjunction with 12gs or mid/high pressure co2. In terms of the CART I'm shooting for, along with the mid-pressure pps valve, about 400-500. From the emails I've swapped with pps staff it seems like the CART does well in that range.

After some experience using (for completely other applications) different grades of N2O (not NO2!!! ) cartridges I discovered how significant contaminants can be. Since then, I've only used food grade (medical grade would be ideal, but I can't imagine why the medical professions would need co2...) CO2 cartriges. No problems there. Much, much less gunk in them:

Only a camera can do it justice, but with crossmans or other industrial grade cartridges a packed cloth filter gets BLACK and sticky as hell to the point only high pressure gases can pass through it (otherwise the goo build up will block lp flow). In a couple instances I even noticed chunks of what look like flakes of metal from bulk storage tanks.

With food grade co2 there is still some goo, but not nearly to the same extent. More like a thin sheen of oil as opposed to this tar/solid contaminant in industrial grade cartridges. I mean, even food grade N20 cartridges will produce some residue, some more than others, but it's workable. Medical grade, from using bulk medical grade N2O, doesn't have these issues at all, but what can you do.

If you can, stick to food grade co2 cartridges, and stay away from industrial grade unless you have a really (and I mean really) tough operating system (thinking tippmann pro/carbine). Cost isn't really a big deal to be honest - if you order bulk food grade isn't any more expensive. In fact, in most cases when you buy just a couple or a small box of crossmans, for instance, you're paying A LOT more than you would in almost any other situation (especially when you buy sandwhich bags of 10 at certain proshops...).

And I'd feel weird running the stock CCM valve over 350-400psi, even though it'll probably "work" well enough...

Last edited by toymachine; 09-27-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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This is a representation of the set up I used.

Took a Lapco drop forward and turned it around on the stock to run it 'hawaiian' style.
Put the buck changer into the drop forward and located the stock on the marker to minimize the distance to the reg.
Ran short length of tubing to the reg.

Lots of trial and error with the reg and velocity adjustment to find a reasonably efficient set up using the stock springs. (because I didn't want to have to switch springs back and forth when using the T2 as an OC marker.

Eventually decided to get a dedicated stock class marker and keep the CCM as open class and not have to fiddle with all the tuning. If you are going to run a T2 as stock class only it can be done, but I would set it up with the right springs, sweetspot it and leave it alone.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toymachine View Post
Adjusting the CART is a b*tch, but I've got a 12g dummy all set and a bleed valve downstream. It's just a matter of getting the CART -> 12g changer.

With an old old old sniper I have pretty good luck getting >35shots / 12g, so I know in principle they can work well (I've had much better luck with that sniper than my phantoms).

Of course, the T2 is very much NOT an old sniper. I'm thinking a devolumizer is a seriously good idea, so I'm gonna fiddle around in the junk bin and see if I can't find some shell casings I've been saving for such a purpose (or I'll just use some copper tubing).

Thanks for all your input guys. Especially Tracker! Very nice setup, hope you get it working as you'd like soon! I take it you ran your setup with the stock valve?

I'm more tempted to using the CART 12g changer in combo with a mid-pressure LT pps valve. In my experience CCM main valves are rock solid, but that's especially with hpa (I'm sure they do well on co2 and especially a/s co2). But I'm hesitant to use it in conjunction with 12gs or mid/high pressure co2. In terms of the CART I'm shooting for, along with the mid-pressure pps valve, about 400-500. From the emails I've swapped with pps staff it seems like the CART does well in that range.

After some experience using (for completely other applications) different grades of N2O (not NO2!!! ) cartridges I discovered how significant contaminants can be. Since then, I've only used food grade (medical grade would be ideal, but I can't imagine why the medical professions would need co2...) CO2 cartriges. No problems there. Much, much less gunk in them:

Only a camera can do it justice, but with crossmans or other industrial grade cartridges a packed cloth filter gets BLACK and sticky as hell to the point only high pressure gases can pass through it (otherwise the goo build up will block lp flow). In a couple instances I even noticed chunks of what look like flakes of metal from bulk storage tanks.

With food grade co2 there is still some goo, but not nearly to the same extent. More like a thin sheen of oil as opposed to this tar/solid contaminant in industrial grade cartridges. I mean, even food grade N20 cartridges will produce some residue, some more than others, but it's workable. Medical grade, from using bulk medical grade N2O, doesn't have these issues at all, but what can you do.

If you can, stick to food grade co2 cartridges, and stay away from industrial grade unless you have a really (and I mean really) tough operating system (thinking tippmann pro/carbine). Cost isn't really a big deal to be honest - if you order bulk food grade isn't any more expensive. In fact, in most cases when you buy just a couple or a small box of crossmans, for instance, you're paying A LOT more than you would in almost any other situation (especially when you buy sandwhich bags of 10 at certain proshops...).

And I'd feel weird running the stock CCM valve over 350-400psi, even though it'll probably "work" well enough...
like i said, i got 34.. its no phantom, but its damn respectable.. and yes everything was stock, and that includes a part that increases volume.. but i also dont know what the cart is set to.. i got it from a guy that plays for total greif, and he was using it on a CCM, so i would assume that its set pretty close to 300 already. but if its off, i might be able to get a few more shots.. and if i used a standard guide rod, i could easily get one more (but im not gonna switch it)

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