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Old 04-03-2014, 10:27 PM   #1461 (permalink)
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Well thats awesome. I'd like to have something like the yoda valve in the hammer 7
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:31 PM   #1462 (permalink)
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I will be waiting patiently. Sounds interesting.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:05 AM   #1463 (permalink)
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Im still here, but I have moved for work several times recently. Im hoping to have my workshop setup this summer so I can continue fine tuning my phantom amongst my other projects.

Maybe I will actually play paintball this year
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Old 04-06-2014, 01:43 AM   #1464 (permalink)
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Would love to try and read all of this to make sense of it all but I'm utterly lost, which is funny since the nelson design is about as simple as it gets. In these 150 pages worth of posts is there a summary post about what you guys are really trying to accomplish and how you are accomplishing it?
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Old 04-06-2014, 02:26 AM   #1465 (permalink)
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Excellent efficiency is trying to be reached. Nothing has really been proven accomplished yet. but many ideas from balanced nelson valves, to low volume super efficient standard valves, all custom internals. I have not seen any numbers near the Theoretical maximum. (though there have been claims).
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:59 AM   #1466 (permalink)
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^ What he said - with the added requirement that it must be a drop in replacement. The idea was to make it available to as many people as possible. I read the entire thread over 3 or 4 days and it's a worthwhile read - albeit time consuming. I don't have the skills the gents in here do, but they've explained it well enough for me to understand.

I'm hoping this resumes in earnest!
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:33 AM   #1467 (permalink)
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As far as I know apoc is the only one claiming exceptional numbers, and is the only one using the system I proposed, by which the air in front of the poppet providing closing force is restricted from leaving out the valve. He calls it a magic hat, I call it, you know, science.

If you guys want to dink around with other ideas, knock yourselves out. The answer to efficiency is about choosing the valve fast. When you keep the closing force on the valve constant by preventing pressure drop in front of the valve, you get much better closing speed. In a normal gun you might lose half your closing force when the valve is venting, then you make it up with valve spring, which mashes the valve harder to open.

If you really want to get good efficiency in this system and don't want to read all this thread, read only my posts. I really don't care how arrogant this post is, because by and large this thread is two years of wheel spinning, and the answer is already in here, as a simple drop in.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:34 PM   #1468 (permalink)
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Has anyone actually made a kit for purchase that will give any real benefits in performance (i.e. better consistency, efficiency, lighter pump stroke, etc.)?
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:10 PM   #1469 (permalink)
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Yea, the Retro 7

Far as a top notch valve kit, no. It's something I was going to do, and will do, when my time and money is available to make it happen. high efficiency 12 gram will require its own valve kit, regulated low pressure would require its own as well. I'll start with the 12 gram of course since that's the most fun for tuning (and gives the best noise signature).

That being said... the ideal setup is still going to hinge around a Retro-based setup, or any setup which similarly controls the recharge of the valve chamber and keeps the liquid co2 from entering. All our testing showed better efficiency results with that method. Tuning for liquid co2 like some have suggested and sworn by, would require completely different valve components to maximize, and they would not be compatible whatsoever with HPA (so I feel that approach is obsolete).
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:21 PM   #1470 (permalink)
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Would love a Retro7 but outside of my budget. Looking for a drop in kit for my Phantom (I'm also using HPA.) That reason is also why I'm wary to continue reading this thread (got to page 25 and I don't recall reading anything about using HPA.) I question if the same gains would be made using HPA in comparison to CO2 whether gaseous or liquid form.
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