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Old 06-01-2010, 09:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Talking about it and linking to it are separate things. This isn't serious business, I don't follow up if it takes work.

Can it be done? Yes. I was a machinist by trade before starting college, still involved in it today. Just finished up my Haas training for a little machine on campus, actually. Besides, you just asked if a .7" ID, ~.85"-1" OD aluminum barrel can be plastically deformed, essentially... I think everyone hear can answer that one.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:11 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I've examined roller burnished parts, but only on external fillets. I know the aluminum can be roller burnished, but I don't see how you roller burnish the whole ID at the same time.

I'm imagining drawing something through longitudinally, but if it touched all sides how would it roll?

No you haven't done mine Rob, but I would like you to.

Some of us take this stuff very (too) seriously
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:15 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Bearings!

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Old 06-01-2010, 10:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siress View Post

That's interesting thanks for the link, I reckon that would be great for a paintball barrel, though you can't do it at the field between games like a flex hone, so I won't say better, just another way to get a good result.

Fundamentally we're limited by the variability of the gelatin capsule though
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:38 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I flex-honed my RAP-4 Ram it made a world of difference after I had it spiral drilled. That gun shot darts after that but prior to it it was a blender.
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Old 06-01-2010, 11:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Kinda old skool, I came across the company that makes them, Brush Research Inc., a few years back, Gun Brushes, Rifle Brushes, Gun Cleaning Brushes, still in business, I'd heard a rumour that the company owner played back in the day.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siress View Post
Talking about it and linking to it are separate things. This isn't serious business, I don't follow up if it takes work.

Can it be done? Yes. I was a machinist by trade before starting college, still involved in it today. Just finished up my Haas training for a little machine on campus, actually. Besides, you just asked if a .7" ID, ~.85"-1" OD aluminum barrel can be plastically deformed, essentially... I think everyone hear can answer that one.

Well, it a shame you didn't, Siress, because it specifically talks about the improvement to roller burnished cylinders that even rougher flexhoning makes...

They're PDF files and so I can't just snag pics and text out of them or I would have brought it all here.

Here's the intro for Siress!
Quote:
When it was first introduced the Flex-Hone was considered a sort of “brush”
that was a simple and fool proof way of deglazing engine combustion and
brake cylinders. It gained quick acceptance in the trade.
Then came reports from all over of rapid ring seating and great savings in
oil consumption. We put out a booklet called “An Observation of Some
Common Practices in Cylinder Boring, Honing and Wall Finishing”. The front
cover emphasizes that “Nothing improves until someone stops and questions
an accepted assumption”. This “gold book” subsequently was translated
into fifteen languages and had over 200,000 copies printed. Most schools
use it as a text reference book. In rapid succession we obtained Service
Approvals from John Deere, International Harvester, Perkins, Massey
Ferguson UK, Caterpillar, Burmeister Wain, Klockner-Humboldt-Deutz,
S.E.M.T. Pielstick, OMC, Saviem, Citroen, Peugeot, Mercury Marine, and
Countless others.
We had learned by this time using comparison profiles that the Flex-Hone
deburred the finish left by either boring or rigid honing and greatly increased
the plateaued area. Feeling that this was probably the answer to the
“secret” of its performance we produced a second booklet on “The Necessity
of a Plateaued Cylinder Wall Finish”. In it we showed in detail the results
of two performance tests, one on a gasoline powered auto engine, and the
second on a Detroit Diesel. This booklet with over 40,000 now distributed
has had a great impact in the engineering field and has resulted in our doing
(in cooperation), a great many more tests into problem areas. We still did
not know the real “why” of its unique performance qualities.
We think, now, that we have come a lot closer to the answer by studying
the micro-structure with a Scanning Electron Microscope and by taking before
and after photographs of different surfaces. That is what this booklet is all
about. And we would like you to study this subject with us and help us in
our continued search for the reasons why the results turn out the way they
do. We used to say that the only way you could tell, was to performance
test. And that is still true. But now perhaps we can have a little better
understanding of what it is we are testing.
We are not a large company and we do not operate on grants or financial
assistance from the government. Most of our work in this field is done with
the cooperation of interested customers and/or our very capable distributors
from around the world. You will recognize the many renowned companies
that have worked with us or approved our products as they are listed or
mentioned in our previous publications. Our reward for our extensive service
in this area is the reception that we have received from you and we are
dedicated to pursue the technology of cylinder wall finishing so as to provide
the most up-to-date information to the industry.
Of equal importance is the finishing of hydraulic and Pneumatic Cylinders.
Under heavy pressures, with different types of seals, finish is vital to their
performance. Too common is the all-consuming mania of cost reduction,
so the continuance of roller-burnishing or pre-finished rigid honed tubing
because of speed and cost. Like a lot of products today, 'make it acceptable
for selling'. Let the consumer worry about the resultant problems. But the
picture today is slowly changing. Competition by quality, or mandated
performance levels, will demand changes in improved methods.
If you haven’t read our Plateaued Booklet recently then we urge you to do
so now. Most top engineers consider it to be the best presentation in its
field. Pages 20-21, 22, and 23 deals with our patented concepts in the
theory of the sliding surfaces and co-acting metals. We continue its study.

Toolguy, I don't know if it was the actual owner, but there was quite a knowledgeable paintballer there back in the day. Brush research is huge in automotive cylinders, my son used one at Livernois Motorsports to seat the valves on their 6.4sec-1/4 mile, outlaw Mustang.

Here's some of my experimental data

A helmet cam game(my last before breaking my leg):
Village game 04/03/10

I know how you hate links Siress but if you zip to the 7 minute mark and watch from there to about 7:40, you'll see me oneball someone out of a tower window that is over 100' away and about 14' up. Does your marker shoot like that? My TPX with it's tiny little barrel does!

Beest,
I will send you this barrel in trade and I haven't forgotten that I owe you money either! Hopefully my checks will start rolling in this week!

Rob
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:00 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Wow, I'm sure your high school teachers would be thrilled hearing you ask that...

The air molecule in my case(I'm just that kind of guy) is called... wait for it... CO2!

Rob
Yes, yes they would.

There is no such thing as an 'air molecule'. You can't call CO2 an air molecule, as it only represents 0.03% by volume of 'air' (roughly rounded off).

If they meant CO2 molecule they should have stated that. If anything, Nitrogen (N2) gets the nod for 'air molecule' at 78% (again, roughly) of the volume of the air we breathe. But that would still be seriously wrong. Air is made up of over a dozen different molecules (though 4 of them, N2 ~78%, O2 ~20%, Ar ~1% and CO2 ~0.03% make up over 99% of it).

When I read stuff like 'air molecule' it makes me think the writer is ignorant and I tune out the rest, much like a Smart Parts ad.

I feel a little like I'm but you gotta expect that when you take the sarcasm to a higher level (and especially when not backed up by facts).
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:25 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentSmith View Post
Does your marker shoot like that? My TPX with it's tiny little barrel does!
I think its much safer to say that's got a lot more to so with your experience with pistols and limited-paint play over the years than it has to do with the infinitesimal reduction in friction between the barrel and the wretchedly poor projectile we've come to know as a paintball.

Shooter makes a lot more difference than whats being shot.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:03 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Don't know what you expected in return, agentSmith, but I'm not hear to defend something that I shared. If you have access to reputable scientific data, please go read it. I know that there is a lot of dung on these intertubes, but there's a smart way to go about sifting. Honestly, I'm sifting whatever you're claiming as a source. Consider it closed minded if you wish, but when I've proven something in physics, conclusively, I do not go back to question it until there is reputable scientific data that counters my previous conclusions. If you tell me that you're an engineer or a scientist, or even a college student of, I'll look into this topic a little further with the primary intent of finding the errors for your benefit (and the benefit of the lives that you'll be helping in your career), and the secondary intent of correcting myself (which I do not consider probable in this case, thus the secondary..and minute ambition).
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