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Old 04-17-2011, 04:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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only 3 classifications really...

1) Working

2) Not Working

3) Modding Work In Progress
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:56 PM   #22 (permalink)
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But how will we know who we are better than?
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Detachment Bravo's Marker Classification System:
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Space Dildo: Comes in many colors. Has lots of pretty lights and electronics. Multiple speed settings. Needs lots of lube.

Mechanical Lover: Characterized by all mechanical operation. Lots of hoses, valves, regulators, etc. Also needs lots of lube. Careful, they bite.

Sloppy Seconds: Any double stack blow back derivative. If it ain't broke, send it off to China and make gazillions of them.

Manual Labor: All you need is your hand. Just pump.

Old Wood: If it can give you splinters or can club a moose to death.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckless View Post
I have to agree with others, the capacities and capabilities of a maker is what matters when defining a category to put them in, not their looks.

If I have a maker that fires at 13bbs, has a hopper which holds about 200 rounds, and has an air source to fire a decent number of pods, then what does it matter if it is hot pink with puppy dogs on the side, or looks vaguely like an AK-47?
From a marketing perspective, a ton. Two totally different buyers.

Quote:
I see there being 2 or 3 core classes, a number of subclasses, and then cosmetic types. Something along the lines of:

{snip firing format distinctions}
I see the standard Pump (open class, modified stock class, stock class), Mechanical, and Electro distinctions fine as they are. They're easy to understand and straight to the point. It's the style distinctions that I'm trying to address. The styling difference between a DSG and a T2 are as drastic as the difference between a X7 and a Blazer or a TM15 and an Ego. But it's not a binary process either, you can't just concentrate on the extremes while ignoring the middle.

Quote:
Styles:
i: Standard Style: aka, space gun. These are markers designed around the functionality of paintball. They can be artistic and styled, or bare and minimalistic.
ii: Sim: Styled to look similar to a real world firearm. This may be a weak sim to give a vague impression of an MP5 or AK47, or scaled to be as faithful of reproductions as possible.
Using "standard" just makes the others seem, well, non-standard. That's why I described that category as Sport. Brings up the image of a sports car to me, lighter, faster, all about doing the thing it was designed for and not hauling anything extra. No stereotyping it to a specific field, just describing it as it is.

And lumping Everything Else under Sim gives you your next issue...
Quote:
The problem I have with the styles is what do you put a marker with paintball functional 'milsim' features? Like the SP1 with useful rails but not styled off any given real world firearm? (Yes, they can be useful. Flashlights for CQB, red dots for actual aiming, spotting scopes for woods play. You don't use the high magnification scope to aim, you use it to help figure out if you're looking at someone's heel sticking out from behind cover, or just a rock.) Or the Tiberius T8 pistol? There are some aspects that are 'milsim', but it is fairly practical in design for what the marker is trying to achieve.
This is why I put the concepts of the rails and other useful bolt ons into a separate category of Tactical. While often paired up with firearm simulation, sometimes it's added to a "standard" paintball gun as well.

Now I possibly over did it by further splitting the looks and functionality of a firearm into two categories (Military and Simulation), but I was trying to cover all the bases, even the weirder ones. And still a big marketing difference between a gun that looks nearly exactly like an M16 but uses a standard hopper and tank, and on that looks nearly exactly like an M16 and uses magazine feed and desperately tries to hide it's air tank.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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is there really a need for 4 different categories describing basically the same thing? why not:

Sport
Mil-style
Mil-sim

those categories are so easy to understand, i don't even need to write a description for them. and if you really feel the need to classify even more, go with sub-cats from there.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:17 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hellbatman View Post
But...basically...why do we feel the need to classify markers? In such a small world...why do we need to alienate our brothers and sisters? Especially over something so simple as the color of their marker or whether or not it has a picatinny rail?
Ah, but that's something my system is trying to address. Showing how formats cross over together. Not all Sport guns are just Sport, but some just look a bit more like a real gun (Mil-Sport), some have a few rails added (Sport-Tac). Their similarities are addressed and pointed out, showing how a player can branch out from their current preferred style.

Quote:
Classify a marker soley by it's compliance to a field of play?[i.e., the Phantom is a gun compliant with NPPL pump regulations whereas the Pump-Mag is not]

-curtis
Well, I have an idea for a "tournament compliance" standard as well, but I figured I'd save that for another thread.
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:27 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubarius View Post
From a marketing perspective, a ton. Two totally different buyers.
I think those 2 different buyers can figure out what they like on their own. No amount of classifying is going change the fact that someone likes marker A over marker B.

Get out and play more and you won't have to worry about such things!
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:33 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubarius View Post
Ah, but that's something my system is trying to address. Showing how formats cross over together. Not all Sport guns are just Sport, but some just look a bit more like a real gun (Mil-Sport), some have a few rails added (Sport-Tac). Their similarities are addressed and pointed out, showing how a player can branch out from their current preferred style.



Well, I have an idea for a "tournament compliance" standard as well, but I figured I'd save that for another thread.
if it's not different enough to warrant its type only tournament, then it's not different enough to warrant its own classification.

modified stock class and open class were categorized out of necessity, no?
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Old 04-17-2011, 05:53 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Electronic

Mechanical

Pump

Other
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Speedball

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Old 04-17-2011, 06:23 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm glad people are starting to drop the old useless binary field based thinking. If this thread only accomplishes one thing, I'd be overjoyed if it's people no longer referring to guns by some stereotypical field expectation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keen View Post
is there really a need for 4 different categories describing basically the same thing? why not:

Sport
Mil-style
Mil-sim

those categories are so easy to understand, i don't even need to write a description for them. and if you really feel the need to classify even more, go with sub-cats from there.
It's better than the old way, I'll give you that. Though it is a bit liner. Sort of...


That's another thing I'm trying a bit to avoid, thinking that any particular gun only fits into one category. What I was going for was more like this...

(not exactly the most exact Venn diagram of my idea, but I was in a hurry)

Find the aspects you like and combine. Seemed simple enough to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usurper View Post
I think those 2 different buyers can figure out what they like on their own. No amount of classifying is going change the fact that someone likes marker A over marker B.
Who's trying to change anyone? Just trying to make it easier for people to find the gun they want, and to maybe open their eyes to more possibilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heinous View Post
if it's not different enough to warrant its type only tournament, then it's not different enough to warrant its own classification.

modified stock class and open class were categorized out of necessity, no?
Maybe classification wasn't the best word. Maybe "Description" would be more semantically correct. Really this whole thing cam about from what I want to purchase and/or build next. I want a magazine fed semi-auto gun that takes First Strikes. I don't need it to look like an actual firearm. I want it to use normal bottom line mounted on-gun air. There currently is no way to describe this gun in the usual terminology at this moment with out having to spell it out in three sentences. I could say a mag fed "speedball" gun, but that just feels stupid since I don't particularly plan on using it on the speedball field.
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