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Old 10-10-2012, 09:55 PM   #141 (permalink)
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1. You cannot separate the ideas of “surrenders working” and “surrender rules”.

If all surrenders worked, there would be no problem with the surrender rule. Seems like an obvious statement.

How many people here complaining about surrender rules have sworn off trying to surrender people? Implicitly, that means the surrender rule doesn't work because surrenders don't work. For them.

Sorry. Surrenders work. You're DOING IT WRONG

The people who practice it as a skill know this. If you don't practice it, why don't you practice it?

Oh, you don't like getting shot.


2. If people think that getting shot is part of the game and then complain about getting shot while trying to surrender someone, that's called hypocrisy.

I don't know how much clearer I can make that.

This is inexplicable for a group of experienced players.



I don't particularly support the surrender rule myself, but it's not enough to be right for the wrong reasons.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:59 PM   #142 (permalink)
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The problem is making it a rule doesn't make people actually follow it. And it never will.
well said. its up to owner or person in charge of ref to make them enforce the rule if there not following or high people that are will to do the job right.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:05 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I am reading a lot of variants of "OMG I just HAD to. Anyone would have" to excuse questionable behavior

No, you did not have to. Its paintball not life and death. If you show a bit of restraint and are eliminated because of it you get to play next game.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:48 PM   #144 (permalink)
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I have a question, How many of you can judge to the inch what 10', or 15', or what ever the required distance is? I sure can't and I would be willing to bet a nice hunk of brass that none of you could either.
My point is, how do you know if the person calling for the surrender is just outside the range or just inside it? I once had a guy call for me to surrender when he was about 20 yards away. I simply flopped to the ground and crawled away in the tall grass. Should I have had to surrender because he thought he was close enough? He obviously wasn't if I was able to crawl away without being shot.
When I ref I instruct everyone to ask people to surrender but to have their guns locked and loaded, ready to shoot if the person does anything other than surrender. I inform them that there people that simply will not surrender. So be ready. Then I tell them that the surrender rule is a courtesy to keep them from being hurt so they should surrender because they will simply get in the next game.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:03 PM   #145 (permalink)
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I have a question, How many of you can judge to the inch what 10', or 15', or what ever the required distance is? I sure can't and I would be willing to bet a nice hunk of brass that none of you could either.
My point is, how do you know if the person calling for the surrender is just outside the range or just inside it? I once had a guy call for me to surrender when he was about 20 yards away. I simply flopped to the ground and crawled away in the tall grass. Should I have had to surrender because he thought he was close enough? He obviously wasn't if I was able to crawl away without being shot.
When I ref I instruct everyone to ask people to surrender but to have their guns locked and loaded, ready to shoot if the person does anything other than surrender. I inform them that there people that simply will not surrender. So be ready. Then I tell them that the surrender rule is a courtesy to keep them from being hurt so they should surrender because they will simply get in the next game.
not hard for me. since i use to pull lumber all day long and can tell you how far 10ft is. since use to pulling 10ft to 12ft and 9ft long lumber to cut for truss. all depends if you do jobs where you need to find lumber or measure things in that length.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:16 PM   #146 (permalink)
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2. If people think that getting shot is part of the game and then complain about getting shot while trying to surrender someone, that's called hypocrisy.

I don't know how much clearer I can make that.

This is inexplicable for a group of experienced players.



I don't particularly support the surrender rule myself, but it's not enough to be right for the wrong reasons.
i think you're misinterpreting the argument. The problem is not to being shot, its being shot out when u shouldnt be.(e.g friendly fire) and in some cases, over shot.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:00 AM   #147 (permalink)
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The problem is making it a rule doesn't make people actually follow it. And it never will.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:11 PM   #148 (permalink)
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When I ref I instruct everyone to ask people to surrender but to have their guns locked and loaded, ready to shoot if the person does anything other than surrender.
That's the same hybrid-style rule they had at AG paintball when it was open and that we had at my old field. I personally think it worked the best. Give the guy a chance to surrender, but if they do anything other than put their marker/hands up in the air, you're allowed to pop them.

That made the most sense to me. If it were a little kid, I'd surrender them. If it was some guy decked out in gear and using a high-end marker, I didn't expect to get a good response.

See, to me, it's a common sense matter. You don't bunker the 12-year old rental kid wearing a sweatshirt and some hand-me-down BDU pants. But the guy shooting ropes with his space gun and custom gear, yeah, I'm pretty sure he won't take offense to getting shot at close range.

I'll tell you this. I think the most important thing to do after bunkering someone is checking up on them after the game. Shoot someone that close and it's just polite to say "hey dude, sorry for the close-in shots, we cool?" Usually that goes a long way to prevent any misunderstandings or whatnot.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:37 PM   #149 (permalink)
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See, to me, it's a common sense matter. You don't bunker the 12-year old rental kid wearing a sweatshirt and some hand-me-down BDU pants. .
This. I know its about impossible to write a rule for but the guys that play every weekend or are regulars generally do not ask for or receive mercy. The kid out there playing with his dad.... you do NOT HAVE TO bunker him. What if you don't and he eliminates you. You got eliminated and he got to be excited about it - big deal.
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"Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful - Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932)

"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 10-11-2012, 12:48 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I had some kid try to surrender me from 20' away, through a slat wood wall. He saw me run up by looking through the cracks and started yelling "surrender!" I just laughed.

That being said, I only ask people to surrender when I am at 1' or less and they can look down my barrel at the round I'm going to shoot him with. Or they are obviously new to the game and I'm pretty close. Again, I yell and dont stop yelling until they put thier hands up or turn on me. Shock and noise works for newer players when I don't want to shoot them.

I am not a fan of the x' rule, they cause people to second guess everyone's moves and cause unneeded distractions from the game and safety. We just need to be nice to each other sometimesand use common sense. Remember, the people on the field with you are your playmates, and we shouldnt try to break our playmates.
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