Paintball

[Chachi]

Originally Posted by Grendel

Painthappy I agree most of the safety aspect has to be taken up by the Fields and their judges. In many cases the fields and judges already do a good job of policing but there are others that do a horrible job.

I went through the "controversy" between CO2 -> Constant Air -> Semi -> Full Auto -> Electronic -> SW driven and most of the arguments are the same but there is a point with ROF where enough is enough. Since some people can not use good sound judgement there is a point where the sport and industry should step up and do some self regualtion or some one will be dictating to us.

Didn't we try this already with the 13.2bps (I think that was it) cap? in the days of rainmakers, and shoebox shockers? That worked out really well. I think we're at a point now that hoppers can't keep up with the ROFs guns can provide, and that's the limiting factor. If a mainstream loader (as opposed to the Q loader or warpfeed type setups) can feed a lot faster, then the issue becomes shell integrity instead of technology. that's the final cap on ROF.

for rec play, I agree with Painthappy. keep rental newbs in their own group, but let old timers rotate in to show them the ropes (people the field trusts not to mow muppets)

-Chachi

[Azzy]

There is a theoretical limit (in the 30's IIRC) where the force required to move a ball into the system for firing overcomes the strength of the paintball shell, and crushes it.

Plus the timting of any system's bolt movement, you have to be able to move the mass and deliver air at a certain speed in conjunction of feeding.

There was a discussion on Doc's a while back, one of the things brought up was needing to fire paintballs into the chamber at 300fps to achieve a certain rate of fire :lol:

[froggy]

I haven't thought tht increased speed has been detrimental overall, up until ramping. As we have moved from pump to auto-trigger pumps, there was a decrease in accuracy for the increase in speed. Blowbacks that kicked like mules in semi also effected accuracy. Fanning an automag trigger meant one less hand on the gun. Walking the trigger of an electro meant less fingers holding the grip. But now you can get 15 bps per x-ball software with one finger. (Can't wait to see single triggers come back). Anyway when speed increases, if accuracy is dimminished I have no problem with the Bps

[HurtCow]

Originally Posted by froggy

Anyway when speed increases, if accuracy is dimminished I have no problem with the Bps

Well I've seen people nail 1 spot across the field with a steady stream of paint. Accuracy doesn't seem to be a big problem, it's just that if they CAN shoot 18bps at that spot instead of 3, they will. Gotta justify the cost of that $800 electrosuperduperagggat. And it's no fun being on the receiving end.

[russc]

I think fun is a huge point that is overlooked. It may be novel for someone to send a rope of paint downrange at 15 BPS, but it doesn't make the overall game more fun. I don't think I'd be playing today if I had gone directly onto a commercial field. I started in the woods with my friends and some BE Talons and it was a blast. The reason I play pump now and try to convince everyone around me to do the same is because no amount of firepower can recapture the sense of pure fun provided in a $50 walmart blister pack.

[Al Ray]

I think we're at a point now that hoppers can't keep up with the ROFs guns can provide, and that's the limiting factor. If a mainstream loader (as opposed to the Q loader or warpfeed type setups) can feed a lot faster, then the issue becomes shell integrity instead of technology. that's the final cap on ROF.

You hit the nail on the head. Doesnt matter how fast your gun shoots, Its not going to shoot faster thatn your loader can feed. I understand the argument of not capping TRUE semi automatic fire, via electronics. My little brothe ris one of the fastest shooters you'll meet, on any gun. The problem is with these what I will call cheater modes/mods. Ive been a fan of Full auto for some time, so long as its capped at 15bps. More on this later, my ankle hurts prety bad and need to go soak it

[HP_Lovecraft]

To a large extent, the issue is not the technology ITSELF, but the average type of player.

In the 80s, you could overshoot players, just like in the 90s, and today. The difference is the average PLAYER is far younger, and less responsible.

I remember ENTIRE TEAMS of SMG-60s in the late 80s. A scary thought for a kid with a splatmaster, but I was only overshot once, and that was a time I dove into a bunker.

Back then, you would always stop firing after a string to give the other player a chance to check himself for hims, and so on. Not today. There is no longer self control with the -AVERAGE- paintballer. The mantra has become fire until he quits from the paint, or is at impossible to wipe off.

I've always loved the "Limited Paint" games, but as paint is a primary source of income for fields, it will never move from being a gimmick.

nick

[Walking_Target]

well, i'd be in favor of *any* mode of operation... provided that it was capped at 10-15bps.

Awhile back, i did reballs over a chrono on my pneumag; i can hit bursts of 10-13 bps, reliably. That's with a purely mechanical trigger, the guy who owned the chrono could do sustained bursts at 14bps. (i will note, we used HPA and a Tickler adjustable LPR to sweetspot the system) all of this at +/-2 fps

point of this being that outlawing electros will do no good; people will just find another way to lighten the trigger pull and make it easier to shoot faster; or we will see the resurgence of mechanical full autos.

the better way of making play more fun for some open games?; paint limits per round! how about a hopper or hopper and pod per game? who cares about BPS just cause you are able to open up and empty your hopper in ten seconds, doesn't mean you will win, it might just mean you've run out of all your ammo in 20 seconds and are now just another target.

[gunblaze1]

This is a post in a different thread, but when I saw it I was dumbfounded, and asking myself how could you suck so much to go through that much air and paint.

[quote] n2extreme1=Well I had 2 114s. 1 on gun and one remote but it was a pain so when I found this tank I got to thinking. I can carry 19pods with me. 13 in my pack, 4 in my vest and 1 in each of my front pockets. Its kind of hard keeping my pants up. Im working on having a vest made that holds 18 pods in the front and 14 in th back with the tank or tanks. This tank mentioned looks like I will have plenty of air no matter how much paint I can carry and I usually have a threw pods tossed my way once I get rolling. Now if I can figure out how to rig it up.
[quote]

The tank he's referring to, as wanting to get is a 4500 psi 88 cubic ft. not a 88 ci. Essentially a SCUBA tank

What makes people think that spaying more paint will make them hit their intended target?

This guy currently goes through over 2500 rounds in one game and is looking to carry over 4000. I think he just needs to learn how to shoot.


The most paint I ever went through in one 15 min game was 150 and that was enough that I almost eliminated their whole team. We were playing 15 per side and I eliminated 10 with only 100 and the last 50 just bunkering someone for my team mate to take out.

I think limiting the paint to only 300 to 400 per game would take care of most issues of over shooting and unfairness of electro's, and at the same time bring the emphasis of paintball back to SKILL not BPS or spray and pray tactics.

[MattV]

Unfortunately, I think the best we can do is limit the retards who like to overshoot. Limiting the speed of electros has been tried, but people find ways around it. Limiting it to semi only has been tried, with similar success.

Fields have to take the initiative to get rid of the people that like to light others up. This can be a difficult thing to do, but it's the only way I can see. I'm tired of going to big games/scenarios and having people hose at me or others until their hopper is empty, when they can clearly see the ball break, and know I was out within the first couple of shots. In an ideal world, these guys would be booted out if the refs caught them. The problem is, they're the field's primary source of income, not me playing stock class, or the renter spending more time in the dead zone than on the field shooting paint.

Limiting ROF would be great, but it's way too difficult to enforce. The best we can do is take our lumps, and laugh at the guy who lit you up when you get him with one $0.05 ball when it took him $20.00 worth to get you.