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Old 11-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stilgar View Post

for example, a low rate of fire tourney I would love to play that...I do not own a blowback, I do not have any intention of buying one for a tourney and I don't want to rent a beat up 98 when I have four perfectly good, functional markers that will all fit the "spirit" of the tourney rules...
A gravity feed on anything is going to have the same ROF. The only advantage electro guys would have is eyes (which would only further limit their ROF).

I could see a Tippmann Model 98 w/ACT and a Cyclone quickly catching on for this.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I feel like we just had this discussion on AO maybe and it boils down to:

What is the intention of the tournament?

Is it to limit the amount of paint in the air? This is more readily done by limiting paint on the field rather than tech. Any tech limits should be designed to do this directly and in the simplest way possible - IE no batteries.

Is your intention really to get blowback markers on the field? If so why?
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Interesting points.

So any gun is fine, so long as you only use a non-agitator loader?

This eliminates the Cyclone, all battery-powered loaders, Q-loaders, and ported blow-back air. No restrictions on air source or barrels, and the option of making the event limited paint/hopper ball.

"Amish Hopper-ball"? which is cool, but diverts from the original intent of the class.

The idea is:
1 - put old bb's back to work (maybe sell a few new ones).
2 - create a very inexpensive path to competition.
3 - bring more players into competition though a lower-cost, less intimidating style of play.
4 - create a series with very simple, and easily enforceable rules.
5 - placing all players on as equal a footing (equipment wise) as possible.

That's where I'm really heading with the thought...

Spin-off: Fields would be able to hold "Rental Series Tourneys" (since they mostly rent BB's). And - fields would be able to have representative teams play one another in a "tour" using rental (blow-back) equipment - yeah, I know... out there. Blame it on the Mexican Coca-cola.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
Interesting points.

So any gun is fine, so long as you only use a non-agitator loader.

This eliminates the Cyclone, all battery-powered loaders, Q-loaders, and ported blow-back air. No restrictions on air source or barrels, and the option of making the event limited paint/hopper ball.

"Amish Hopper-ball"?
I think you have the idea. Make the rules as simple and inclusive as possible while accomplishing your goal. One of the old NPPL (or PSP?) rules said that a loader had to stop feeding if the marker was turned upside down. At the time it was considered to eliminate warps (there was a lot of discussion around this). It would eliminate the q-loader for certain.
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"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The simple, un-agitated hopper (200 rd or less) is an easy rule and works pretty well. Myself and others around here play recball and scenarios that way frequently. I noticed an electro with one this weekend. I play my mags and lasoya promaster that way. I can RT, but not more than four balls at a time. Stick feeds actually feed better.

That's also easy as a tournament rule, loaners are cheap. I also know TF keeps up with his CCM against my hopper-mag just fine, as well as other AT players.

There's a "gravity league" right? They should have some lessons on this. Anyway, I think if you want a category above open-class pump, the base line is a rotor-fed AT'ed CCM. You could make it an OR thing to include A5/x7s; gravity feed OR unassisted mechanical trigger (not electro, RT, pneu, double action, crank, etc.).
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I had a plan to run a tournament similar to this idea a few years back. Basically, any non-electro, non-RT triggered marker, then could use whatever hopper they wanted, whatever air source as well. A Rotor isn't going to give a player any further advantage than a Revvie when you are shooting a Tippmann 98.

I also was going to use a SPPL based idea of a tournament, on a smaller NPPL sized field. It had buildings, so I was going to use a 5 flag idea, where each flag was worth 1 point for every minute that a team had it raised in their color. Games were 10 minutes long with reincarnation of eliminated players every 2 minutes.

This satisfies the idea of not having a marker shooting at 12.5 BPS, or whatever, and still let's people play long games, and play more than just say 30 seconds. It's less about just shooting the other team out, and more about protecting what you have.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:12 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
The idea is:
1 - put old bb's back to work (maybe sell a few new ones).
2 - create a very inexpensive path to competition.
3 - bring more players into competition though a lower-cost, less intimidating style of play.
4 - create a series with very simple, and easily enforceable rules.
5 - placing all players on as equal a footing (equipment wise) as possible.
My question about #1: Why?

#2: I'm with you

#3: Ok - but limiting tech too specifically means you have to purchase something specifically for this which defeats the purpose.

#4: I think there are better rules to accomplish this

#5: This is going to be hard to do unless everyone uses "rental" or specific equipment provided by the tournament. While I love the idea it has been met with resistance whenever I mention it as people like their equipment - its half (or more to some of the people here) of the fun of the hobby.
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"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 11-19-2012, 04:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
#4: I think there are better rules to accomplish this
Awesome. Please share them with us.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
Awesome. Please share them with us.

Options (combine, pick and chose, whatever):

Gravity feed only

No agitated hoppers

No batteries

Limited paint

"Beater" rules- your total set-up must have a value of less than $X. This rule creates all sorts of its own problems though as we discuss the subjective value of equipment.

Really I am with you on most of these ideas accept I do not understand the limiting it to blow backs or what is going to be gained there except for the limitation.
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"Use peaceful means where they are appropriate; but where they are not appropriate, do not hesitate to resort to more forceful - Thupten Gyatso (the Dalai Lama, 1932)

"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 11-19-2012, 05:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnerd88 View Post
Interesting points.

So any gun is fine, so long as you only use a non-agitator loader.

This eliminates the Cyclone, all battery-powered loaders, Q-loaders, and ported blow-back air. No restrictions on air source or barrels, and the option of making the event limited paint/hopper ball.

"Amish Hopper-ball"? which is cool, but diverts from the original intent of the class.

The idea is:
1 - put old bb's back to work (maybe sell a few new ones).
2 - create a very inexpensive path to competition.
3 - bring more players into competition though a lower-cost, less intimidating style of play.
4 - create a series with very simple, and easily enforceable rules.
5 - placing all players on as equal a footing (equipment wise) as possible.

That's where I'm really heading with the thought...

Spin-off: Fields would be able to hold "Rental Series Tourneys" (since they mostly rent BB's). And - fields would be able to have representative teams play one another in a "tour" using rental (blow-back) equipment - yeah, I know... out there. Blame it on the Mexican Coca-cola.


one of our local fields (2 hours south) has started a rental tourny

beginner division is rental 98's, less than X tourny experience, not sure on paint cap

open division is no batteries, pumps or mech guns

here is the pbn thread for the event Diamond Hill Mechanical and Pump Series 11/18/2012 event 2

i wanted to play, but couldnt do the event 2 days before i left on vacation


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Options (combine, pick and chose, whatever):

Gravity feed only

No agitated hoppers

No batteries

Limited paint

"Beater" rules- your total set-up must have a value of less than $X. This rule creates all sorts of its own problems though as we discuss the subjective value of equipment.
Really I am with you on most of these ideas accept I do not understand the limiting it to blow backs or what is going to be gained there except for the limitation.
have you seen the top gear episode where they are in sweden and do the amateur rally racing? the rally league had a value limit, like $5k, end of a race, you could offer $5k to any racer and they HAD to sell their car. that would be a fun rule... use any gun you want, but end of the day it has a price tag on it... keeps guys from usin the high end gear
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