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Old 01-17-2014, 08:21 AM   #31 (permalink)
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In the state of NJ :
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New Jersey self defense gives a person the right to use force against another to protect real property – home - but first the defendant must be in possession or control of the premises or licensed or privileged to be there.

In addition, the defendant must reasonably believe that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of a criminal trespass – unlicensed or unprivileged entry – or against a person committing a more serious offense.

Prior to using force the defendant must request the intruder to stop interfering with the property unless the request is useless or dangerous to himself or another to make the request or if substantial harm would be done to the property before the request can effectively be made.A trespasser cannot be expelled by the use of force if the defendant knows that the exclusion will expose him to a substantial danger of serious bodily harm.

Deadly force may be used to repel a person attempting or actually committing arson, burglary, robbery, or other criminal theft or property destruction.

However, either of two sets of circumstances must be present before deadly force can be used for the protection of premises.

First, the occupant reasonably believes that the person against whom it is employed is using or threatening to use deadly force in the occupant’s presence.

Or second, a person reasonably believes he could terminate or prevent the commission of a crime but if he used less than deadly force he would expose himself or another to a substantial danger of bodily harm.

Same standards apply to protecting personal property except there is never a justification to use deadly force in defense of personal property – no justification for shooting at thief attempting to steal one’s automobile.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I prefer my Ruger .357 to a TPX. Because if your going to break into my house and threaten me and my family I paintball gun just doesn't scream "get out" Like the presence of a fully loaded .357 with 6 inch barrel pointed at you does. The sound it makes when Cocking the hammer back is enough to send shivers down your spine.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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12 guage blank for the first cock and shoot.Most crooks think you won't drop the hammer they will crap their drawer's when you pull the trigger!!
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by paintballarmsdealer View Post
You know I guess all the nay Sayers are correct how can a 6 gram rock hard, solid projectile traveling at 350+++ fps, that produces over 28+ pounds of blunt force trauma repeatedly from a TPX and or other marker, lets say one that has a 200 round hopper and much higher fps rate have an effect on anyone in a defensive situation ????

Now please somebody close this thread before someone post video's of what a marker with the right ammo is capable of.
I for one want to see the video pls!

TPX is probably the worst marker choice for high velocity though. I'm still voting for RR#7 or if you can find them GSS in .45
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Its a bad idea for a series of reasons:

A) If you are going to engage someone who has unlawfully entered your house in combat do so with a single rule: Win at all costs. This means being willing to inflict more pain and / or physical damage on your opponent than he is willing to inflict on you. Put simply I will not stop defending the people in my house until I am physiologically incapable of doing so. I assume anyone willing to break into my house is willing to engage in combat to this end. As such I am going to pick the most effective weapon at my disposal to use to render my attacker incapable of continuing his attack as quickly as possible. Handguns are notoriously underpowered in this regard. I have no clue why I would use some means even less likely to succeed.

2) A legal obligations: I have no duty to detain an individual. The only duty I have after someone has committed to an attack on me or my family in my house is to not continue to inflict damage after they surrender or retreat. Put simply I am not an officer of the law. An officer of the law may engage in combat where the use of lethal force is inappropriate. I will not be engaging in combat in such a situation. As such the idea of using "less-lethal" means makes no sense to me.

3) In the end I am willing to tell a prosecuting attorney, a judge, and a jury that I used an overwhelming amount of force with full knowledge of my actions and the potential implications of my actions. I am not trying to kill anyone. I am trying to use an overwhelming amount of force to stop the attack. How are you going to explain using a less-lethal device? Did you intend to use deadly force or not? If you did not was it because you did not think you had the legal standing to use legal force? Did you have the standing to use less-lethal force? Too many questions arise if you use less than overwhelming (IE deadly) force. My stance is simple: while I understand using deadly force may result in someone dying my intent was only to stop the attack as quickly as possible.

4) Further legal issues: was the use of this quasi-firearm because you did not have the legal right to own a firearm in the first place? Good luck using it as a firearm, especially in modified form by such as by changing the projectile, in one instance and than arguing it was not a firearm afterwards.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
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12 guage blank for the first cock and shoot.Most crooks think you won't drop the hammer they will crap their drawer's when you pull the trigger!!
Blanks can still kill, and much like shooting to wound, it opens you up for legal liability. If you are pulling the trigger on a loaded firearm (even if you believe the load is a dud), then you have reached the point of applying possibly deadly force. If you are knowingly using less than lethal force, you clearly do not believe your life is in danger requiring deadly force to protect it. If you are not in a situation that requires deadly force, then you are not responding appropriately and are likely going to score yourself some jail time and a long future of being prohibited from weapons ownership due to the felony charges you'll earn.

Not to mention the question of what happens if you get one chance to make the shot, and rather than crapping his trousers your attacker decides to charge you with a knife, or simply shoot back while you're trying to chamber the next shell.

Self defense is an all or nothing question. You're either in a situation where you need to apply all available force to stopping someone right now even if this results in their death, or you aren't threatened and can instead attempt to get them to knock off whatever they're doing verbally and/or leave yourself to de-escalate.
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:09 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I don't believe in shooting to wound. It may be harsh but if you are already that much of a degenerate to resort to robbery then you are nothing more then scum in my book. If you are in my house uninvited you are putting me, my family, and my property in danger.



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Blanks can still kill, and much like shooting to wound, it opens you up for legal liability. If you are pulling the trigger on a loaded firearm (even if you believe the load is a dud), then you have reached the point of applying possibly deadly force. If you are knowingly using less than lethal force, you clearly do not believe your life is in danger requiring deadly force to protect it. If you are not in a situation that requires deadly force, then you are not responding appropriately and are likely going to score yourself some jail time and a long future of being prohibited from weapons ownership due to the felony charges you'll earn.

Not to mention the question of what happens if you get one chance to make the shot, and rather than crapping his trousers your attacker decides to charge you with a knife, or simply shoot back while you're trying to chamber the next shell.

Self defense is an all or nothing question. You're either in a situation where you need to apply all available force to stopping someone right now even if this results in their death, or you aren't threatened and can instead attempt to get them to knock off whatever they're doing verbally and/or leave yourself to de-escalate.

Last edited by Steve_81; 01-18-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:58 PM   #38 (permalink)
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If you ever mention "shooting to disable/wound" after an incident, it will be found that you "were not really in fear for your life", and you will go to prison.

Always always aim center of mass with intent to kill.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:45 PM   #39 (permalink)
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If you ever mention "shooting to disable/wound" after an incident, it will be found that you "were not really in fear for your life", and you will go to prison.

Always always aim center of mass with intent to kill.
Not entirely true.
Back in the early eighties, I needed to defend my home from two intruders armed with crowbars. I knew they were coming, I had been waiting for them for days. I even parked in an underground garage so it would appear as I wasn't home. (I ambushed them, knowingly and with malice and forethought)

I allowed them to break through my kitchen door and enter my apartment, I fired three rounds of #7 from my Savage Model 12. They were both very incapacitated, and bleeding profusely. I called the local constabulary and advised them to bring an ambulance before I finished them both off.

Naturally, the "People's Republic of Massachusetts" prosecuted me to the fullest extent of the law. In this Left-Wing serfdom, citizens have no rights to defend themselves from either miscreants, or jack-booted government thugs.
During my prosecution, the state claimed that because I had ambushed these two, I intended to kill them.
I told the judge that if I had intended to kill these two, they'd already be dead, as the evidence showed I had more than 100 rounds of 3" magnum slug, and 70 rounds of double-ought buck.

The NRA provided me two lawyers in Brooks Brother's suits, that cost more than I made that year. They acquitted me, on the grounds of self-defense.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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and with that quasi political diatribe we can close this thread. Thanks guys! be safe!
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