Paintball

[HurtCow]

Oh ok that makes sense. I think he took it down because it had become redundant.

[Marmaduke]

Originally Posted by Z-man

-Z-man registers to post in a thread he very much likes to discuss.
-Z-man posts in said thread generating post #1.
-Thread deleted.
-Z-man docked 1 post.
-Z-man sees ghost of BPS thread and posts in it.
-Z-man generates post #1. (again)


EDIT: It was so big I had to save it (and still have it saved ho ho) as a text file while I built it and added all the various images and videos and links... It was one of those "spend 30 min creating it" posts.

Care to share it again?

And yes... I've seen people hit over 20bps on semi. Granted, there was a little bounce involved, but three fingers were used. This guy has been playing for over twenty years and owns a field (that I work for )

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Marmaduke

Care to share it again?

And yes... I've seen people hit over 20bps on semi. Granted, there was a little bounce involved, but three fingers were used. This guy has been playing for over twenty years and owns a field (that I work for )

sure! let me remove the reply to his post part and Ill have it up in a moment.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by Drum

*removed*

I honestly cannot tell the bolded is sarcasm or not, but it makes for a good way to get people revved to argue about it...

tl:dr reply

Some markers can shoot a continuous, unbroken string of paintballs over the course of one full second or longer at a sustained rate of fire exceeding 30 (thirty) paintballs every second. However some people are difficult to present what they consider to be "credible" evidence.

The best I can do for you is what I put up on my site linked in reply #1. (old thread linked here again for reference)

Video Page of All Speed Test Videos by Zak Vetter
and
The Complete "How To Rapid-Fire" Resource (RT valved Auotmags only)

Since I made all those videos and still have the footage, here is a 640x480 res of the Viking string. You can see:

1- The loader
2- The paint
3- The sound signature

640x480 Video Clip from the QLoader Movie

No background noise so you can look at the sound signature if you cared to... I can't do much better than that.* Fake?* I guess anything could be with CG today.... lunar landing might have been fake too....

More Thoughts

Either the number of paintballs per second your marker can shoot means something to you or it does not.

If it does, you probably only want to talk about it as long as you believe you have the fastest marker. That is important because people will know you bought the best gear and chose the best gun. Just like buying a sports car that has been tested past 200-mph, owning the fastest marker will garner you great respect and bragging rights. On the off chance someone tries to take you down a peg, refer to this handy chart I made some time back. Given just about any angle you are good to go!



If you don't care about how many paintballs a marker can shoot every second, you don't make threads about it and you certainly don't choose your equipment based on those parameters and this entire thread does not interest you much.

BPS - BALLS PER WHAT? * * S E C O N D * *

What is it you want to measure? Rather what are you going to show and then what are you going to claim it is?

I got news for you. If you are presenting evidence of how fast something is and there *isn't* a full second of footage you can measure paintballs being fired from the marker.... you might not have thought your cunning plan all the way through. THIS IS NOT BPS.

Peak ROF vs BPS the stuff your l33t LCD screen tells you (you know the ironclad proof you use on PBN)

Peak ROF is what people will often use to show that they do in fact have the fastest marker. Most of you have seen these videos, the ones where the markers' ROF is all over the map.. Usually they are ALSO the ones where they are shooting the metal lid of a freaking garbage can in an empty room with a concrete floor shouting for good measure.

Impossible to prove but conveniently impossible to disprove by lack of measurable evidence.



What better way to find out a markers' true speed than to consult our trusty ROF meters? It seems today that people think the the acronym of Rate Of Fire and Balls Per Second mean the same thing.

They do not.

BPS is a measurement of your ROF over a 1 second interval

ROF as defined by Wikipedia states "Rate of fire is the frequency at which a specific weapon can fire or launch its projectiles. It is usually measured in rounds per minute (RPM or round/min), or per second (RPS or round/s).

So what most people who use ROF meters are reasoning out is something like the below:



As long as at least 2 shots go off within 1/40th of each other your little LED/LCD screen will lead you to the obvious conclusion. Keep in mind that it's also telling you that YOU shot it that fast.... Further discussion on the matter reveals that some markers do in fact measure ROF over 1 second but for some reasons they are not accurate (as compared to a sound analysis)

The Bottom Line

People want to feel good about what they buy. They want to be told by their friends that they made a good choice. They want to have reasons to cite that they bought the right thing. The first thing that comes to mind is the same thing that comes to mind for most stuff we buy. How fast is it? Faster = Better. How fast can your sport bike do 0-60? How fast is your computer? How fast can your gun shoot?

Back in 2004 when I first hosted that old Halo vs QLoader video it really made a lot of people mad because we had this crappy Automag, a marker known to be heavy, slow and a paint blender and that stupid QLoader contraption throwing out 100 rounds at 30+bps from start to stop. No breaks, no stops, no drop-off.

And that was the problem. It didn't leave room to pick apart because it was over 3 seconds of that kind of shooting, you could see the paint flying out and there was no background noise to make the sound analysis hard. What do you say to that when you have companies, MAJOR companies like WPD who employ... well you know like... scientists and and.. lab techs and have this computers that grind away for weeks to calculate the most perfect, technologically advanced marker ever conceived?




What to do? What to do..... I mean it's clear this Automag fanboy coughed up this video to try and make some lame attempt to prove something.

Problem was that no one came up with anything... at all. Not even close it seems.

Well in the end it largely got people to shut up about BPS and CPS. Any time a thread pops up on a paintball forum the question is posed, argued back and forth and ended after 2-10 pages with:

"raaarrrr, rarrrrrrr not tourney legal so it's not really important raaarrr".

That's fine.

You will find some other reason to show why what you own is better than what I own.... Why you were smart to buy that new marker and I was foolish to keep what I have. You will also be quick to tell me that the marker does NOT make the player and its all skill (and you have skill because you can shoot XXbps)

Only now it's all caped. You get to show off your wicked fast 15... 13BPS marker complete with high performance Halo and valving SO fast... well check it out man.

And that's what I call REAL ULTIMATE POWER.

[HurtCow]

Oh wow, it's Zak Vetter! Welcome to MCB! Sorry I yanked yer chain.

[DeTrevni]

Zak, how'd you find this debate? I mean good Lord, where ya been? The guys over on AO freak out when someone gets a phone call from you. You really need to stop in and say "Hi."

[drg]

I guess I should repeat my reply to Z-man's post, which was quite amusing.

The only inaccuracy is the use of the Eclipse ROF counter example; as far as I have seen Eclipse ROF counters do not read instantaneous ROF (i.e. measure 2 shots) but track shots over one-second intervals. They are apparently not accurate above a certain ROF however that is how they work.

If you take 3 shots, for example, no matter how fast you shoot them, your peak ROF reading will be 3 bps.

[Party of A-5]

Z-man.
Great post, I really enjoyed that.

[custar]

Quick, someone screen shot this page. It clearly shows Zak Vetter is a newbie!

Welcome to MCB. You will find an . . . interesting . . . crowd here.

custar

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by HurtCow

Oh wow, it's Zak Vetter! Welcome to MCB! Sorry I yanked yer chain.

No sorry needed, I'm not looking for a praise coming here, I came because I hear that there are smart people here and that is who I want to talk to.

Originally Posted by DeTrevni

Zak, how'd you find this debate? I mean good Lord, where ya been? The guys over on AO freak out when someone gets a phone call from you. You really need to stop in and say "Hi."

They say a picture is worth 1000 words. 1 paragraph + 1 picture is what I give you to explain where I have been for going on 3 years with near zero contribution to the paintball scene.


Armory (note the reps)

(I'm the one on the Purple Insect thing)

If you know anything about World of Warcraft, that is the short answer. Only a few of you will even know what that mount (and title means) and the rest of you won't care but let me give you the info that will mean something.

Played from March 2005 - December 2007. Total played time ~ 400 days.

I cannot go back and thus I am doing my best to consume myself in the sport I loved.


ya.....