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Old 12-06-2017, 09:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
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They drink and bathe in liquid co2, in baths and vessels constructed of brass, and snort black powder, and have hooks for hands, and wooden pegs for eyes, and false teeth, and false hair, and speak in riddles, and smoke hand rolled marijuana, and eat roadkill, and ...
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:26 PM   #32 (permalink)
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They drink and bathe in liquid co2, in baths and vessels constructed of brass, and snort black powder, and have hooks for hands, and wooden pegs for eyes, and false teeth, and false hair, and speak in riddles, and smoke hand rolled marijuana, and eat roadkill, and ...
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
Yes, that is understood that HPA is a great choice for winter play especially if you are running a newer (electronic) gun.
HPA is a great choice regardless of the time of year


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That said, in my opinion Co2 is a better choice for the type of renegade woodsball games that tend to happen in the winter since you can buy several tanks and a fill station for C02 for the price of one new HPA tank.
Co2 is cheaper, ya, this is nothing new. But that doesn't mean it's better. I can get full going to McDonald's or to a high end steak House.

If you want less headaches you use HPA, how much that is "worth" is up to each player

This also largely depends on what's around you. I played backwoods ball with a group of friends, we started with renting a 50lb co2 tank. After a while we found some scuba tanks purchased those and ran both. After that we got rid of the co2 tank and just ran HPA. After the initial purchase it was cheaper to use hpa since we owned the tanks.

If there is a scuba shop down the road from someone but they need to drive 50 miles to get a bulk co2 tank filled then the money they saved by getting co2 tanks doesn't work out.

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no, liquid Co2 setups have been made through the 90's and into the 2000's. Even a new tippmann 98 can be easily set up for liquid Co2. And by no means did I say it has to be liquid. While liquid is a great choice you can simply run a vertical Co2 tank and it works great.
Setups MEANT to run on liquid were not produced into the 2000s. You can run some stuff made in the early 2000s on liquid but they were not designed for that.

Technically you can run any marker on co2

Here it is simply put, if you know what you are doing you CAN essentially do anything you want, but if you want to make life easier

1) use hpa
2) use a poppet marker


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Old 12-07-2017, 06:14 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I still have an old Hi-8 video tape around here somewhere, that I've been meaning to get transferred to digital if I could ever find someone with a functioning Hi-8 machine. That tape shows a game we played back in... probably '95 or so. We swung by a local bank on the way there, and taped a few seconds of the "time and temp" clock showing -17F. (Or -22C for you metric types.)

We played about three or four hours, and swung by the bank again on the way home. It'd warmed up considerably, and was then -14F.

Two of us had HPA- very early Nitro Duck FW71 tanks (I still have mine, and it's still on the same gun ) but we could only get very expensive industrial nitrogen tanks, and after just a couple of fills, we were lucky to hit the field with 1,000 psi.

We used chemical hand warmers to try and keep the CO2 tanks going, and/or swapping them out with tanks that had been left on our cars' defroster vents. The gas-hogs, like a VM-68, would barely get 30 shots off a hot 20-ouncer, before the pressure dropped so low it'd burp.

On the other hand, we were using then-brand-new R.P. Scherer Polar Ice, which worked very well. We got reliable breaks even on parkas and other poofy jackets.

It's been a long time since we played quite that cold, but winter games are still a blast. Up here, 20-25F is practically T-shirt weather, and with most modern guns and HPA, there's very little you need to do special.

One, swap your greases for oil, especially in spoolers. If at all possible, use a top-quality synthetic, like KC Troublefree/Outlast. (Which we used on my 'Cocker and various 'Mags that -17F day.)

I once scooped PMI oil out of a Tippmann- same day I got to shoot a borrowed PVI Shocker, at about -10F. It kept working on HPA, but with an effective ROF of maybe one shot every two seconds or so.

Two, check your batteries. Cold saps their strength, and a marginal-low battery will start cutting out after things have cooled off.

Three, have a good thermal lens, and maybe a good anti-fog. Better yet, have a second set of goggles you can swap out while the other one warms up and dries off either in your car or the clubhouse, or whatever. (If you have such a thing. )

Four, yes, very much dress in layers. Or bring extra clothes with you, so you can strip off the heavy jacket and swap it for a lighter one. The big one is socks- I don't care what kind of fancy boots you have, if there's any snow out there, your feet are gonna get wet. Or they're gonna sweat and get wet anyway. Pack dry socks to both switch out during the day, and for a quick final change for the drive home.

Five, bring thin gloves. Any glove will do, but thin cotton work gloves are comfortable, warm, and can be swapped out easily (and inexpensively) when they get wet and/or smeared with paint.

Six, stay hydrated. You can lose water just as fast in the cold as you do in the hot, especially if you're a little overdressed. I like to have a bit of both- a cold drink (Gatorade or just juice or water) as well as a warm/hot one (I'm not a big coffee drinker, so usually a thermos of hot chocolate.)

Seven, heat packs can help, but you need to place them where they can do some good. Just jamming it in a pants pocket is better than nothing, but if you can, set it up so you wear it over the kidneys. Trust me, that's the best location for a heat pack to keep all of you warm. On the really cold days, I loved those old steel heaters you filled with lighter fluid- I still have a couple somewhere. They could get too hot at times, though, so pad them appropriately.

Eight, don't worry about keeping your paint "warm". It's gonna be cold by the time you get out to the field anyway. Minimize the hot-cold cycles; bringing the cold gun and tubes into the warm car or clubhouse, then back out into the cold, invites condensation and sticky shells.

Nine, the most reliable modern cold weather guns I've used have been striker-fired poppets, like the Ego and Etek. Still a fan today of the KCTF/Outlast oil (which I have in stock ) to keep 'em running, but I will say that if you break a ball and goop the eyes, it's just that much harder to clean out when it's cold.

I do have a Mega-Z around here somewhere, and I've run all manner of blowbacks on liquid over the years, but I'm given to understand most fields don't even bother keeping CO2 tanks on hand anymore. If you're set up for it, that's great, but these days you'd be better off going with an HPA tank.

And ten, I wish I could recommend a good cold-weather paint, but I haven't tried any of the ones available for probably five years or more, and at least one manufacturer has changed hands in that time. My local field is very limited on what kinds of paint it can get, so I've only tried one or two recent brands. (And none of it cold-weather paint.)

I do know we've shot regular paint in the cold probably more often than we've shot the cold-weather stuff over the years, so don't worry too much about getting specialty paint. Get a decent brand and grade and go have fun.

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Old 12-07-2017, 09:12 AM   #35 (permalink)
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My montneel and liquid co2 comments were made partly in jest, just throwing out the old school MCB curmudgeon response. I’ve mostly switched to how these days for ease of getting fills at the field. But the idea that running co2, summer or winter, takes some kind of specialized knowledge is amusing. I ran a montneel on liquid and a couple Tippmanns on gas for years from 15* to 100* without issue. Maybe I’m so damn hot that I kept the guns and paint warm? I’ll go with that
Like I said, been mostly hpa for years but I never drank the anti co2 haterade. Not that it even applies to spoolies anyway.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:42 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Setups MEANT to run on liquid were not produced into the 2000s. You can run some stuff made in the early 2000s on liquid but they were not designed for that.

Technically you can run any marker on co2
THis is true, and truth be told, it is not really a viable option today.
Even Tippmann officially stopped selling and supporting siphon tanks in 1999. The original Model98 was the last Tippmann to have siphons as an option.

Lots of post-2000 guns use plastic internals (ie power-tubes, etc), that do not handle the thermal cycles of running liquid, and parts tend to crack. Not to mention that using a siphon without cutting the spring, or modifying the valve will result in a much more forceful recock, leading to dramatic wear on internal parts.

Not to mention that all the popular modern guns (anything requiring regulation) will burst into flames with a siphon. cold flames. That leaves cheaper, non-regulated blowbacks, which tend to have the cheaper, low-grade orings, internals, push/pull fittings, etc. Sometimes with volumizing chambers. Workable, but not ideal. Certaintly not "drop in".

Not to mention that siphons themselves can be harder to make since lots of valves are now unsutable for conversion. And you still have to deal with the idiots filling the tank who will think you are a fool, and tell you over and over that your tank is broken, and your gun will explode. etc

SO.... siphons are a great way to get "old" guns to work in winter. lol
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Old 12-08-2017, 08:51 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I have a spoolie (DP G3) that doesn't really seem to like the cold. I had it out in the yard the other day when it was about 35F, and it was shooting super slow. And if i tried to shoot it any faster than about 1 bps, the the first ball would come out maybe around 200 fps, then the follow on shots would just roll out the barrel.

I thought about taping a hand warmer to the body of the marker to keep it warm... is this a bad idea?
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Old 12-08-2017, 08:52 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I have a spoolie (DP G3) that doesn't really seem to like the cold. I had it out in the yard the other day when it was about 35F, and it was shooting super slow. And if i tried to shoot it any faster than about 1 bps, the the first ball would come out maybe around 200 fps, then the follow on shots would just roll out the barrel.

I thought about taping a hand warmer to the body of the marker to keep it warm... is this a bad idea?
It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it'll work. They dont' put out enough heat to counteract the cold that the metal will "absorb".
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Old 12-08-2017, 08:53 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by blasdgag View Post
I have a spoolie (DP G3) that doesn't really seem to like the cold. I had it out in the yard the other day when it was about 35F, and it was shooting super slow. And if i tried to shoot it any faster than about 1 bps, the the first ball would come out maybe around 200 fps, then the follow on shots would just roll out the barrel.

I thought about taping a hand warmer to the body of the marker to keep it warm... is this a bad idea?
Did you try upping the dwell any on it?

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Old 12-08-2017, 09:40 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Heya Bo's! Yeah i did try upping the dwell. Now that I think about it though, this was potentially during the time that I was having o-ring issues as well (my thread on PBN). So now that's fixed, I should try it in the cold again.

Regarding the hand warmer idea, i just was curious if it might put out too much heat, or if the hot/cold would stress the metal or damage o-rings or anything...?
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