mcarterbrown.com
 

The Dead Zone Paintball Related Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-13-2009, 07:27 AM   #21 (permalink)
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008

Hmm, so something has to change in the shell between .68 and .50 right? Otherwise it will be bounces all round? This can only mean a more expensive ball for your average player, because the shell will have to be thinner or a different design?
one.man.band is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 09:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
HP_Lovecraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Maine

Quote:
Originally Posted by one.man.band View Post
Hmm, so something has to change in the shell between .68 and .50 right?
More specifically, something has to change from the .50 we used 20 years ago, as it was worthless garbage, as far as ballistics and usability.

The 3357 was designed for target shooting, not paintball, so we can't really fault it for that. But you end up with lots of corkscrews, shorter range, and bouncers.

THis is why the push for bringing .50 back seems.... dishonest. I will not improve the game, but only make guns cheaper to produce, as well as get players to buy new guns.

Fortunetly, .50 conversion kits would be trivial for most guns. Special barrel, bolt, and maybe breech sleave, like with the old SNipers.
__________________
www.montneel.com

"the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
HP_Lovecraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 09:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
no, I'M sorry
 
heinous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
More specifically, something has to change from the .50 we used 20 years ago, as it was worthless garbage, as far as ballistics and usability.

The 3357 was designed for target shooting, not paintball, so we can't really fault it for that. But you end up with lots of corkscrews, shorter range, and bouncers.

THis is why the push for bringing .50 back seems.... dishonest. I will not improve the game, but only make guns cheaper to produce, as well as get players to buy new guns.

Fortunetly, .50 conversion kits would be trivial for most guns. Special barrel, bolt, and maybe breech sleave, like with the old SNipers.
how about 1 piece sleeve barrel?

my question is though, will conversions be made at all? because the industry is obviously doing this to sell more guns.
__________________
feedback http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html

pile of poo, HARD MODE, automag pistol---S.P.E.W.II---What if this hurts me?---No, I'M sorry.---Semiautomatic Nelspot 007!---Decay of Nations 4
Camp Pendleton meetup 2010---Watch me fail at pump!---Clareball 2010 vid!---MCB Stock Class Meet!---HELMETCAM!
Quote:
Originally Posted by skullcandy1993 View Post
Before the first day Velcor said let there be Heinous and it was true. And then Heinous said "Let there be God" and it was true. And it was good
heinous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 11:03 AM   #24 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
brycelarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minnesota

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
The 3357 was designed for target shooting, not paintball, so we can't really fault it for that. But you end up with lots of corkscrews, shorter range, and bouncers.

THis is why the push for bringing .50 back seems.... dishonest. I will not improve the game, but only make guns cheaper to produce, as well as get players to buy new guns.
I dunno - look at UV's math. it's entirely possible that these will be better than .68 as far as projectiles go. I don't know why the guns would be cheaper - all of the expensive parts will remain the same.
__________________
-Bryce Larson
brycecollinlarson@gmail.com
Feedback
brycelarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 06:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
XYZZY
 
Jaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: People's Republic of Massachusetts
Send a message via AIM to Jaan Send a message via Yahoo to Jaan

3 years ago I asked the question over at the AO forums, whether you could shoot a .55 cal paintball at a higher velocity and still hit with the same impact. There were a couple of interesting responses...

Automags.Org Online Forums - .55 cal paintballs ... new FPS limits?
__________________
If your glasses fog up and you want to make your own mask fans, here's how;



"My happiness doesn't depend on anything. My heart is always happy. I do have anger issues though."
Jaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 07:24 PM   #26 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
HP_Lovecraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern Maine

Quote:
Originally Posted by brycelarson View Post
I dunno - look at UV's math. it's entirely possible that these will be better than .68 as far as projectiles go.
He leaves out too many variables, and treats them like firearm ballistics.
Paintballs, unliked firearm bullets, suffer from the magnus effect. This is because of the large size, light weight, and variable spin axis.

Boost a .50 to 400-500fps and it will corkscrew, and still not break on the target

Quote:
I don't know why the guns would be cheaper - all of the expensive parts will remain the same.
Look at all those crappy .40 guns that flooded the market a few years ago. You need far less pressure to push a .40 paintball to 300fps then a .68 paintball.

Less pressure means cheaper, weaker parts. ie more plastic and pot metal, and less machined parts. Though, I'd agree its not a big difference. You still need to function generally the same.
__________________
www.montneel.com

"the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam (Smart Parts) could have invented the electronic paintgun" -Garr M. King, U.S. Judge
HP_Lovecraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 07:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
Hoarder not Whore
 
Dave-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida's doormat

As an average player...and one with a room full of guns.... the last thing I want to do is convert all my markers to a new calibre just because it might shoot a couple of yards further.

Like wise the last thing I want to do is buy 2 cases of paint instead of one when I go to play.

Also if the new calibre of paint is just that much better and gives the .xx guns a superior advantage over .xx then fields might have to separate the different guns. especially if the velocity's are vastly different. If my local field allows different size paint and one size starts to dominate the field to the disadvantage of the other (and my markers are the other) I'm simply not going to play there. I will go back to outlaw ball which in the long run is more affordable any ways.

No Pun intended but the industry has the very real possibility of shooting itself in the foot here.
__________________
Will I go blind if I polish my Brass everyday?



Feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html
Dave-D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2009, 07:02 PM   #28 (permalink)
Paintball Ballistician :P
 
uv_halo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008

Hey all, please accept my apologies for the delay. Here is the data for each of the three projectiles, fired at 300FPS

.683 Paintball:
Maximum Energy (ME): 9.255ftlb

Maximum Range (MR): 97yds

Angle for Max Range (AMR): 26deg

Terminal energy (TE): .478ftlb
Mini Me:
ME: 4.134

MR: 86yds

AMR: 25deg

TE: .178ftlb
Slug:
ME: 9.255

MR: 142yds

AMR: 30deg

TE: .876ftlb

Compromise:
ME: 6.694

MR: 117yds

AMR: 28deg

TE: .461ftlb








So, looking at the data, the slug round and the compromise round should still have an edge in ballistic performance- Just not as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha434 View Post
What's the weight of a "vintage" .50 round? Just out of curiosity.

Edit:

Consider reasonable densities... Your "compromise" ball still has a higher average density than wet gravel.
I don't have a 'vintage' round so, I can't tell you. My guess is that it was most likely similar to the mini-me since, manufacturers didn't have any incentive in the past to mess with the fill- they were still trying to get the shell right...

Please post your numbers for, and define "wet gravel" (i.e., how wet, size of gravel stones, etc). Anyways, just how well do you think 'wet gravel' scales down to 1/2 of an inch? how much water, and how many 'gravel' pieces are you going to get into a .50 sphere. Oh, and please be aware that I'm talking grains (7000grains per pound) over cubic inches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
He leaves out too many variables, and treats them like firearm ballistics.
Paintballs, unliked firearm bullets, suffer from the magnus effect. This is because of the large size, light weight, and variable spin axis.

Boost a .50 to 400-500fps and it will corkscrew, and still not break on the target....
Please add some meat to this comment. Just what variables did I leave out? Please keep in mind that these same variables have accurately described the flight of a normal .68 paintball and on August 6th, I predicted that the max range for a First Strike to be 519ft. Two weeks later, Mike @ TechPB hit Willie on the shoulder at about 517ft. The point is, I'm not using "Firearm Ballistics" I'm using "External Ballistics":

Further, for the flight modeling, I'm using software (Chairgun Pro) optimized for the velocity ranges of airguns. Which are very similar to paintball guns, no? I mean, you can even model a .177 BB if you wanted to.

The Magnus Effect is not a significant contributing factor to the performance I am describing. A paintball fired from a normal (and clean) paintball barrel will not generate enough spin to do anything significant to the ball's trajectory. For perspective, consider that the apex barrel puts over 10K RPM on the ball.
__________________
FN303SD Totmacher 13 | SP 'Woodstalker' Ion | 1989 Line SI Bushmaster SI Deluxe
First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs | My Feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
uv_halo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 09:51 AM   #29 (permalink)
Bigger Balls
 
Siress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA

Anyone checked on the difference in point force upon impact?
__________________
Feedback: MCB, SCP, PHOG, PBN, and My eBay account
Siress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 02:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
Banned
 
alpha434's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008

AKA Fan
Just calculate density for your balls and then look in a book to find things with comparable densities.

Getting stuck on the words "wet gravel" are detrimental to this conversation. It's changing the topic.

You said "Here are three possible samples that I will crunch numbers on."

I said "Two of those are impossible."

The numbers for the slug might be beneficial, but the compromise isn't compromising enough to be feasible. It's not something that we could possibly expect from a .50 round.
alpha434 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » The Dead Zone

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC