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Old 08-12-2006, 08:58 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talfuchre
I am not sure about all of those sig's. But I live in Houston and I can say for sure that an armed citezenry is NOT a polite citizenry.

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That is because not everyone is armed.
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Old 08-14-2006, 08:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I think this is wrong. It is because EVERYONE is armed - and feels they are dirty friggen Harry to boot.

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Old 08-15-2006, 03:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Well, then you should move to Washington DC! Handguns are completely Illegal there, and we all know what a safe place Washington is..


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Old 08-15-2006, 05:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't think the use of the word "polite" in that quote necessarily meant everyone will be using their please's and thank-you's and you're-welcome's. You're always going to deal with egotists, loud-mouths and generally rude behavior. I think it's a more generalized sense, focusing mostly on criminal behaviors. Ie: it's unlikely that the guy down the street will walk over and have his way with your daughter, just because he feels like it, and knows there's nothing you can do about it. Or, that he'll just walk in , beat you senseless, and take what he wants. And, i'm not just talking about Joe Q. Average citizen hurting another citizen...there's lots of persons in various levels of authority that could be abusive as well. If you need examples, please look at any of a dozen various African countries, Bosnia, Kosovo, etc. Armed groups took advantage of unarmed ones, and did whatever the hell they wanted, because they knew they could get away with it. Those 2 situations I mentioned above are exactly what has occurred countless times over in various countries throughout the world, and even in some of the rotten neighborhoods of our own country where gun-control tends to be the strictest.

And honestly, I'd rather have a few extra Dirty Harry's in my neighborhood than a few extra thugs or gang-bangers loitering about, that have the neighborhood terrorized.

All one really needs to do is compare the crime stats. Rapes and crimes against the person dropped significantly in Florida when it relaxed its carry laws in the early 90's, particularly for women licensees. Crime in Toronto, Canada has seen a steady upswing in past years as firearm carry has been forbidden. Home Invasions have skyrocketed in England, where even keeping firearms in the home has become all but impossible.
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Last edited by LUKE; 08-15-2006 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
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One of my fellow gun nut buddies spouts that line once in a while. I totally disagree with it. Firearms don't make a polite citizenry, although firearm ownership is a hallmark of a free society. The Swiss are armed to the teeth and they're very polite yet the Japanese have no firearms (practically) and they're equally polite. The Somalis probably have as many guns per capita as the Swiss yet that "country" is a killing field. Many South American countries have very high rates of gun ownership and very high violent crime rates. Montana has high gun ownership and little crime. Florida has high gun ownership and very high crime rates. I guess that a general respect for your fellow man is a requirement for a polite society as well.

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Old 08-15-2006, 08:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pillage
I liked that article. One saying that could of been added: It`s better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

one night, after being attacked by three guys, and sending two to the hospital, i had asked the cop taking my statement if i was looking at jail time. he responded with that quote and went on to say that once it was more than one guy attacking me, it was fair to assume they were trying to kill me.

(note: i sent two of them to them to the hospital, using bare hands only, no weapons)
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Old 08-15-2006, 11:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrrpie-CT
One of my fellow gun nut buddies spouts that line once in a while. I totally diagree with it. Firearms don't make a polite citizenry, although firearm ownership is a hallmark of a free society. The Swiss are armed to the teeth and they're very polite yet the Japanese have no firearms (practically) and they're equally polite. The Somalis probably have as many guns per capita as the Swiss yet that "country" is a killing field. Many South American countries have very high rates of gun ownership and very high violent crime rates. Montana has high gun ownership and little crime. Florida has high gun ownership and very high crime rates. I guess that a general respect for your fellow man is a requirement for a polite society as well.
The Japanese are a conformist society. Everything there is about how one is percieved. They tend to ostracize those who don't conform. Things like wife beatings, rape, etc often go unreported because of the shame involved of being a victim.

The two biggest extremes for Handgun ownership in the US is Vermont and Washington DC. Vermont had a Murder rate of 2.6/100K, vs. 50/100K for DC.

Personally, I find it disturbing that people are willing to put their own personal safety in the good intentions of others. One only has to look to the warzone that NOLA became after hurricane Katrina to learn that a healthy percentage of your fellow man do not have your well being as concern.


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Old 08-15-2006, 01:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTRN
The Japanese are a conformist society...
Much the same can be said about the Swiss, I guess. I'm a vociferous gun rights advocate but I contend that a causal relationship between gun ownership and a peaceful society doesn't exist. I frequently say that I value a free society over a safe society. But, if roving gangs threatened to kill me and my family a la Baghdad 2006 I don't think gun ownership alone would be very reassuring to me! Respect for law and human life in general must be a core component of any civil society.

Whenever I read about the violence of inner cities (New Orleans, etc.) I just cannot fathom how people can treat each other so savagely and trivially. Lock and load!
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrrpie-CT View Post
Much the same can be said about the Swiss
Not really. The Japanese have a saying - the nail that sticks out, get's hammered. For instance, it's quite common for coworkers to go out drinking after work in many countries, but in Japan, if you don't participate, you'll get labeled as "odd", and can expect to be passed over for promotion. You may make the short list for layoffs too. Switzerland has some odd social permutations(they're disdain for the automobile for one), but they're individualistic as much as the rest of Europe.

If you don't believe more guns=less crime, then go look at Britain before and after they passed the recent firearms ban. Within weeks, crime rates started climbing. Ditto Australia after their firearms ban.


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Old 08-15-2006, 08:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTRN
Not really.
Actually, yes. Both societies eschew, to varying degrees, individualism as you've described in Japanese culture. The Swiss, though European, are so very concerned with neatness and order (lawns and flower boxes, etc.) that conformity to a communal standard is expected with dire social consequences for violators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTRN
Not really. If you don't believe more guns=less crime, then go look at Britain before and after they passed the recent firearms ban.
That begs the question! (Humbly, I submit) More guns can mean less crime but my contention is that there is no direct causal relationship between the two, as other social factors are equally important. To make my point a bit clearer, if gun ownership alone was the mitigating factor, should not Mogadishu be a very safe place to visit?

*edit* As well, and previously stated by a few people, Montana and Florida have similarly high gun ownership rates, yet wildly different violent crime statistics!
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