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Old 08-07-2014, 07:37 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MaD View Post
It's NOT that the monkey owns the image
this is how lame we are (humans)

I get a pet dog, very first day I buy him a chew toy. IT IS HIS FAVOURITE! He plays with it every day. I brag to all my friends about having bought it for him, I identify it as being his in writing, on video, and verbally. But he will never own it. He can't. Because he is a dog.

that's stupid.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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do monkeys have the same rights as humans?

If they do and the photog did not hire that monkey as an assistant or a second shooter then that monkey owns the pics.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:40 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mar View Post
this is how lame we are (humans)

I get a pet dog, very first day I buy him a chew toy. IT IS HIS FAVOURITE! He plays with it every day. I brag to all my friends about having bought it for him, I identify it as being his in writing, on video, and verbally. But he will never own it. He can't. Because he is a dog.

that's stupid.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rymzor View Post
do monkeys have the same rights as humans?

If they do and the photog did not hire that monkey as an assistant or a second shooter then that monkey owns the pics.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:58 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chopper duke View Post
Copyright laws for photographs are complicated. If I get hired to shoot a wedding (full body shudder) and hire an assistant, all of the images they take, I own and copyright. If I hand a point and shoot to a kid and let them take photos as well, I still own the images and copyrights. Thinking a monkey can own a copyright is ludicrous.
Its complicated because its inconsistent. The wedding party hires you but you own the images you take. You hire an assistant but he or she does not own the images he or she takes.

I'm not in photography. I don't hire to have photography done. If I did my lawyer would write the contract because I simply don't trust the photographer to do it based on the discussions we have had on this board. I would also treat all images in that contract as work product and maintain ownership of them (to me). Again its not something I deal with nor have any intentions of dealing with but I find some of the discussions concerning.

I'll be interested to see the outcome. As I noted above my feeling is that ownership of the media the image is originally saved on is likely to be an appropriate outcome - of course thats not, from what I can tell, how it stands now so I doubt it is the outcome
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Last edited by Lohman446; 08-07-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
Its complicated because its inconsistent. The wedding party hires you but you own the images you take. You hire an assistant but he or she does not own the images he or she takes.

I'm not in photography. I don't hire to have photography done. If I did my lawyer would write the contract because I simply don't trust the photographer to do it based on the discussions we have had on this board. I would also treat all images in that contract as work product and maintain ownership of them. Again its not something I deal with nor have any intentions of dealing with but I find some of the discussions concerning.

I'll be interested to see the outcome. As I noted above my feeling is that ownership of the media the image is originally saved on is likely to be an appropriate outcome - of course thats not, from what I can tell, how it stands now so I doubt it is the outcome
Incorrect, the photographer owns the pictures of your wedding, you do not. This is well documented and can be found all over the internet.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Incorrect, the photographer owns the pictures of your wedding, you do not. This is well documented and can be found all over the internet.
I intended to convey that but used "you" too much. Let me rephrase to clear up what I meant. The wedding party hires a photographer. The photographer owns the images. The photographer hires an assistant. The assistant does not own the images he or she takes but the photographer does. This is the inconstancy I referenced that confuses non photographers.

Its why if I hired a photographer, and cared, my lawyer would write a contact for the event assuring me ownership of any product produced while I was paying.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post

Its why if I hired a photographer, and cared, my lawyer would write a contact for the event assuring me ownership of any product produced while I was paying.
You don't need a lawyer. You just need to pay extra and sign a different contract. We own all the photos from our wedding photog. Cost extra, that's all.

Also its not really inconsistent. The copyright laws regarding photography are designed to protect the person who put forth the investment in the business and equipment. Personally I think its pretty straight forward and wikimedia will undoubtedly lose this in court if it goes there. Would this picture exist if the photog hadn't put the effort forth the resulted in it being taken?
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You don't need a lawyer. You just need to pay extra and sign a different contract. We own all the photos from our wedding photog. Cost extra, that's all.

Also its not really inconsistent. The copyright laws regarding photography are designed to protect the person who put forth the investment in the business and equipment. Personally I think its pretty straight forward and wikimedia will undoubtedly lose this in court if it goes there. Would this picture exist if the photog hadn't put the effort forth the resulted in it being taken?

Would it exist without Nikon? Or whoever. I think the argument is interesting because it was a monkey and, we assume, uncompensated. If absent a contract the person activating the shutter owns the image than the monkey owns it. Unable to assert ownership is the image public or does it belong to the owner of the equipment? The photographer was not, we assume, making an effort to regain his property so we can argue it was being borrowed. If you borrow equipment from a friend for a photography job without compensation or a contract do you or your friend own the photo? This is why I think it is interesting.

I should note that my argument that, absent contract to the contrary, the owner of the original media should own the image maintains most of the photographers rights that have been asserted in the thread. Tying it to ownership of a physical item is just simpler for my mind. Not saying that is how it is but simply saying it would be a reasonable argument to make
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"It is not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters" Coach Paul 'Bear' Bryant.

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Old 08-07-2014, 09:42 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mar View Post
this is how lame we are (humans)

I get a pet dog, very first day I buy him a chew toy. IT IS HIS FAVOURITE! He plays with it every day. I brag to all my friends about having bought it for him, I identify it as being his in writing, on video, and verbally. But he will never own it. He can't. Because he is a dog.

that's stupid.
Kids don't legally own anything either. I make that clear to mine.
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