Sword Cane Legality? - Page 3

DeTrevni · 05-02-2008, 05:39 PM

John, as a fencer, how do you feel about the pistol gripped cane I link to in the original post? Cold Steel advertises it's supposed to feel like a foil, but as I have yet to do fencing (one of my goals one day), I wouldn't know. Does it look right?

And seriously, I would love to know if these "blades" are legally considered as such. How would I go about checking? I've got a feeling any cop or law official I asked would be rather biased about it. I'd love an unbiased opinion some how.

Edit: Even if it is legal, it would still be classified as a concealed weapon, but I'd have no problem with that, as when I turn 21, I'm getting my concealed carry license anyway. "So get a bleedin' pistol!" C'mon. Swords are just so much classier!

Edit 2: The legal blade length in TEXAS is 5.5". It's quite a bit shorter in most other states. On the bright side of this, I can legally carry my Itallian stiletto (non automatic)!

John Satclaire · 05-02-2008, 05:56 PM

As far as I know, "blade" encompasses even the unsharpened, thrust-only sort of penetrating weapon that's on a CS sword cane. I'd have a hard time making a straight-faced argument to the court that my client wasn't guilty because the item in his possession wasn't, in fact, a "blade." That said, I haven't checked Texas criminal cases or statutes--I could be wrong. You can probably find some sort of definitions section using Google for the Texas law, and then google for Texas cases citing that code section. Someone has almost surely tried this argument as a defense before.

Also, the biased opinion of LE is really all you care about. Just because you'd ultimately prevail on your claim at trial (maybe), you don't want an arrest record, or to spend time in jail, or to have to make bail, or to have to pay the sort of rates decent lawyers charge.

I can't tell just by the side view whether it would feel like my pistol gripped fencing weapons or not. I imagine it would give a better hand position and control than the simple pommel looking sword canes (which would handle more like a french gripped weapon) because it is sorta pistol-shaped... but size of it relative to your hand will make a big difference. There's also no finger hooks or tail that extends back to brace against the inside of your wrist. Best analysis I can give is that it will be like a really long push dagger with a large "half a T" grip, if that makes any sense. Better than a straight grip for a sword cane's main purpose, but I still wouldn't want to fence a duel with one

DeTrevni · 05-02-2008, 06:03 PM

Ah, whatever happened to the age of class and family and namesake respect? "Pistols at dawn" is a legal threat these days, not a bout for honor. Thanks John. Your insight helps a lot. I'll have to look it up, but I feel you may be right. Though Texas is quirky when it comes to weapons laws. I'll have to dig some more. I am still fascinated by the idea of sword canes.

Mstrtal · 05-02-2008, 06:09 PM

Is that stiletto duel or single edged? I know in a lot of states that regardless of blade length duel edge is not allowed.

DeTrevni · 05-02-2008, 06:16 PM

It's single. Double-edged is also illegal here in Tejas. I know most knife laws here, I was just wondering if the blade in the cane would count as a "blade." But, I guess since it was designed with the intention to pierce flesh, it wouldn't look so good on trial regardless of classification.

John Satclaire · 05-02-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeTrevni

"Pistols at dawn" is a legal threat these days

Actually, you're probably ok with that one, so long as you phrase it that way (i.e., as an invitation to agree upon future conflict, rather than a threat to do imminent harm that the other person could reasonably believe you willing and able to carry out regardless of their lack of agreement with you)--wouldn't be a legally actionable threat as I understand that part of the law.

Sadly, there's probably still an anti-duelling law on the books of your state, though, so the two of you agreeing on pistols at dawn would be illegal

Or maybe they can only criminalize the act of dueling... so you'd need agreement and a substantial step towards completion of the act for "conspiracy to duel."

DeTrevni · 05-02-2008, 06:28 PM

Hah. I'll keep that in mind next time some one makes a "yo mamma" joke.

Clearush · 05-02-2008, 08:21 PM

you carrying a cane would end with a cavity search at the police station :P

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/tx.txt

it could easily fall under the definition of "spear" and therefore be illegal to carry as a normal item.

BoBo · 05-02-2008, 09:57 PM

I can't believe you guys - he says "Their boar spear also did what it was supposed to, at a time when the weapon failing would have been really bad for me "

and no-one asks for the story?

Seriously?

Mayvik · 05-02-2008, 10:40 PM

If you want a cane as a weapon, just get a nice stout wood one with a metal tip and nice solid head. You'll be better off whalloping someone with a sturdy cane then trying to slice/stab them with a tinfoil sword, and it's a lot easier to explain to the po-po. Personally, get a gun permit (in Texas, not hard) or find a "legal" knife you feel comfortable with as a last ditch self-defense weapon. There are plenty of legal assisted-open knives out there with ~4" blades that'll do in a pinch.

05-02-2008, 05:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
DeTrevni Post Whore Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,131	John, as a fencer, how do you feel about the pistol gripped cane I link to in the original post? Cold Steel advertises it's supposed to feel like a foil, but as I have yet to do fencing (one of my goals one day), I wouldn't know. Does it look right? And seriously, I would love to know if these "blades" are legally considered as such. How would I go about checking? I've got a feeling any cop or law official I asked would be rather biased about it. I'd love an unbiased opinion some how. Edit: Even if it is legal, it would still be classified as a concealed weapon, but I'd have no problem with that, as when I turn 21, I'm getting my concealed carry license anyway. "So get a bleedin' pistol!" C'mon. Swords are just so much classier! Edit 2: The legal blade length in TEXAS is 5.5". It's quite a bit shorter in most other states. On the bright side of this, I can legally carry my Itallian stiletto (non automatic)! __________________ 35 people like me thus far, and none don't! Last edited by DeTrevni; 05-02-2008 at 05:47 PM.

05-02-2008, 05:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
John Satclaire Devil's Advocate Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 543	As far as I know, "blade" encompasses even the unsharpened, thrust-only sort of penetrating weapon that's on a CS sword cane. I'd have a hard time making a straight-faced argument to the court that my client wasn't guilty because the item in his possession wasn't, in fact, a "blade." That said, I haven't checked Texas criminal cases or statutes--I could be wrong. You can probably find some sort of definitions section using Google for the Texas law, and then google for Texas cases citing that code section. Someone has almost surely tried this argument as a defense before. Also, the biased opinion of LE is really all you care about. Just because you'd ultimately prevail on your claim at trial (maybe), you don't want an arrest record, or to spend time in jail, or to have to make bail, or to have to pay the sort of rates decent lawyers charge. I can't tell just by the side view whether it would feel like my pistol gripped fencing weapons or not. I imagine it would give a better hand position and control than the simple pommel looking sword canes (which would handle more like a french gripped weapon) because it is sorta pistol-shaped... but size of it relative to your hand will make a big difference. There's also no finger hooks or tail that extends back to brace against the inside of your wrist. Best analysis I can give is that it will be like a really long push dagger with a large "half a T" grip, if that makes any sense. Better than a straight grip for a sword cane's main purpose, but I still wouldn't want to fence a duel with one __________________ Corrupting the youth, Profaning the Divine, And making the weaker argument the stronger. Last edited by John Satclaire; 05-02-2008 at 06:02 PM.

05-02-2008, 06:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
DeTrevni Post Whore Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,131	Ah, whatever happened to the age of class and family and namesake respect? "Pistols at dawn" is a legal threat these days, not a bout for honor. Thanks John. Your insight helps a lot. I'll have to look it up, but I feel you may be right. Though Texas is quirky when it comes to weapons laws. I'll have to dig some more. I am still fascinated by the idea of sword canes. __________________ 35 people like me thus far, and none don't!

05-02-2008, 06:16 PM	#25 (permalink)
DeTrevni Post Whore Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,131	It's single. Double-edged is also illegal here in Tejas. I know most knife laws here, I was just wondering if the blade in the cane would count as a "blade." But, I guess since it was designed with the intention to pierce flesh, it wouldn't look so good on trial regardless of classification. __________________ 35 people like me thus far, and none don't!

05-02-2008, 06:28 PM	#27 (permalink)
DeTrevni Post Whore Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,131	Hah. I'll keep that in mind next time some one makes a "yo mamma" joke. __________________ 35 people like me thus far, and none don't!

05-02-2008, 08:21 PM	#28 (permalink)
Clearush MCB Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: HTown, TX Posts: 1,151	you carrying a cane would end with a cavity search at the police station :P http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/tx.txt it could easily fall under the definition of "spear" and therefore be illegal to carry as a normal item. __________________ Carter's Commando Texas division The White Board Comic My SCP Feedback Ebay Feedback MCB Feedback

05-02-2008, 09:57 PM	#29 (permalink)
BoBo Active Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 105	I can't believe you guys - he says "Their boar spear also did what it was supposed to, at a time when the weapon failing would have been really bad for me " and no-one asks for the story? Seriously? __________________ http://www.lockree.com

05-02-2008, 10:40 PM	#30 (permalink)
Mayvik MCB Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 1,590	If you want a cane as a weapon, just get a nice stout wood one with a metal tip and nice solid head. You'll be better off whalloping someone with a sturdy cane then trying to slice/stab them with a tinfoil sword, and it's a lot easier to explain to the po-po. Personally, get a gun permit (in Texas, not hard) or find a "legal" knife you feel comfortable with as a last ditch self-defense weapon. There are plenty of legal assisted-open knives out there with ~4" blades that'll do in a pinch.