General

[Posey]

<<<<< (waits impatiently for Monday's big announcement)

[Schmitti]

Posey... and everyone else.... stop now with the back and forth. Last warning.

E

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Lohman446

Would doing any of this remedy the fact that at best you would still be using a modified LL weapon?

A body marked "not for recreational use" does not a LL weapon make young padawan.

Changing out the offending parts as we've already discussed is the solution.

[paulduckson]

What part do I need to buy that has the overpressure relief valve? And if overpressurization is the main concern, what about a remote adapter on hpa with an inline reg? Another thing and this is just my opinion, these pistols shoot under 280fps, and are built around a well-recognized marker, what makes them any more dangerous than a plastic Walmart pump that the thing blows up in your hands or any less consistent thn an automag shooting on a 20oz co2? We've all played with pieces of crap and custom markers and I don't understand why (other than for profit) Tiberius would b pulling a move like this and I for one am boycotting the company. I will miss those first-strikes though, way cool.
I see the legal standpoint, but I don't understand why you can't get it inspected and certified from an airsmith to be "safe" for paintball. Slap a little sticker on it

[Mayvik]

Originally Posted by william77stout

Also is Eric from Tiberius going to post something on Monday HERE or is someone contacting him?

Don't know if he's going to post or not. I'll call him in the AM if he hasn't, but can't guarantee getting in touch (first rule of vacation: there's no such thing as vacation, just delaying work until later so you have a huge pile when you get back).

Originally Posted by paulduckson

What part do I need to buy that has the overpressure relief valve?

If you were to buy a complete T8 back block, it would have the valve, however it doesn't change the fact that the side of the gun is engraved with "Not for recreational use" and the manufacturer has said not to use it. If you bought a complete upper assembly, that would alleviate any question that the regulator is different as well as giving you a main body without the offending markings...but at that point you may as well buy an entire T8. Tiberius will probably know what you're doing if you call and try to buy just a block...

[paulduckson]

I would hope they would see that as a better alternative to someone spraypainting. Because some are going to play with them regardless, and if Tiberius really had safety as a number one concern, they would offer the parts and not some gift cert that you have to buy more tib products with, for guns they already sold. ether it be at a field or in the woods with friends, they are out there and people will play. I hope they do the right thing

[10-shot kid]

I could go through all the effort of citing case law showing that you can't use these things on a paintball field. I could maybe even explain it better than Druid there but I think he's done more than an adequate job at it.

Let me just say it bluntly. If you go to court your going to have the 9-12 people who were too stupid to get out of jury duty deciding if you are in the wrong or not. It's laser engraved on the side of the gun that it's not for recreational use. If it wasn't you but someone else in court what decision would you bet your money on? Not what's right, not what you would pick, but what a group of 9-12 people would pick. Honestly, I'd be betting on the jury deciding that you shouldn't be using the gun.

Furthermore the gun not having a safety relief valve is a big deal. While there are older paintguns that don't have them, like my bushmaster SI for example, it's a world of difference if it's a new one. A new one that people who aren't respectful of the game or understand what they are holding want to have.

Who is going to have one of those old guns? Most of the time it's someone who has either been around for a long time or has been around long enough to appreciate what the gun is enough to buy it. That's someone who, in all likelihood, is going to respect what they are holding.

Look at what happened when the ion came out, it totally dicked up the game because suddenly new players had access to incredible fps. This is the same as that except in terms of velocity. No relief valve means that you can crank the cowboy **** out of the velocity of that gun. The fact that you don't even need to swap out springs to do it, like most of the older guns, is scary as hell.

Everyone knows that people carry tools on the field. I have and generally still do field rule or not. The problem with not having a safety relief valve is the minority of those people who crank up their FPS. It happens, we all know it.

Product liability law aside the fact that a bunch of those got sold to the paintball populace is scary as hell. Maybe your not a dick, maybe the majority of people who bought the SA "Not for recreational use ever" 8 for the gun not just the magazines arn't dicks, but I would hazard to guess that the ratio is a smidgen higher. You are most likely not the problem, nor are the majority of people who post at places like here, the problem is everyone else.

That said the fact that now people are going so far as to tell kids how to modify things related to high pressure chambers is also scary as hell. May I remind the forum that the only time there has ever been a death from a paintball device was when some kid installed his own antisiphon tube in his Co2 tank. He didn't torch check the reg, it was loose, it unscrewed and smashed his friends moms head in.

Dicking around with high pressure air chambers is a horrible choice if you've had no training. Given what I've read here and elsewhere I have no reserved feelings in saying that you all don't comprehend what you are screwing with, stop it.





"How many people here would like me to bring an FN303 to the field?" (druid)

I would, it would be wicked cool to shoot at the crono range.

[paulduckson]

You make an excellent point, and although a lot of kpeople lack the expertise or even the common sense, its foolish for tib to assume that people are going to turn these in at a loss, a fact that will turn people (including myself) to alternatives Such as modification or replacement of parts. Most people that play the sport start at Walmart and in the woods, and I firmly believe tib will be unpleasantly surprised at how few of these get returned and in turn will be clawing for a way to recoup losses and cover their arses with the one for one exchange option or even better, parts kit.

[Jaan]

Maybe I'm missing something...but wouldn't a fair and safe(er) alternative be for Tiberius to provide retrofit kits to authorized dealers?

If the biggest "safety" issue is that the average paintball player doesn't have the experience to properly modify a paintball gun themselves, then just have the guns brought to a local paintball shop...someone who is authorized to provide service, would be an acceptable alternative.

At some point the shop can swap out the part with the laser engraving with one that says "authorized retrofit" or some such for a core swap.

I'd have no real problem going to my local store and giving them say, $50 to do this. I'd rather do that then get a gift certificate.

The part of all this that really concerns me is the road that this leads to. I can imagine a time where paintball manufacturers are saying to fields and insurance companies that any modifications to their markers makes them unsuitable for use. No more aftermarket parts at all.

What scares me the most is that if I owned a company manufacturing paintball guns, I would see the logic in covering my own butt by doing this. How can I guarantee that a barrel made by someone else will not totally screw up the gun? I can't, so you can't use it.

[sewiv]

Originally Posted by 10-shot kid

Furthermore the gun not having a safety relief valve is a big deal. While there are older paintguns that don't have them, like my bushmaster SI for example, it's a world of difference if it's a new one.

Really? Where's the pressure relief valve on my A5? I can easily get that over 400 fps on CO2 without even trying. I pulled out a couple of USPs the other day to test fire them before shipping them out, and one of them was throwing anywhere from 350 to 380 on a BE twelvie. There's no pressure relief valve there either.

This is the same as that except in terms of velocity. No relief valve means that you can crank the cowboy **** out of the velocity of that gun. The fact that you don't even need to swap out springs to do it, like most of the older guns, is scary as hell.

Bull****. You hardly need to swap springs to hit 400+ on most older guns. I remember pulling an F1 illustrator out of the box that was running between 430 and 480, breaking about every 5th paintball.

You can turn any gun up to illegal speeds. If you can turn it down, it should be legal, it's that simple.

This is just tiberius playing stupid marketing games, pissed off at lost market share and striking out.

Everyone knows that people carry tools on the field. I have and generally still do field rule or not. The problem with not having a safety relief valve is the minority of those people who crank up their FPS. It happens, we all know it.

If it happens, and you know it, and you don't report it, you're part of the problem. I don't play at fields that don't chrony, and I prefer fields with roaming chrony refs, where you can get chronied at any time.

Product liability law aside the fact that a bunch of those got sold to the paintball populace is scary as hell.

Only for lawyers. Again, ANY gun can be turned up to illegal speeds. Should we ban them all? Maybe we should just throw paintballs at each other, so your feelings aren't hurt?

That said the fact that now people are going so far as to tell kids how to modify things related to high pressure chambers is also scary as hell.

Right, because no one has ever successfully and safely modified a paintball gun ever.

Given what I've read here and elsewhere I have no reserved feelings in saying that you all don't comprehend what you are screwing with, stop it.

Got some certifications to back up what you're saying?

I thought not.