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Old 11-30-2013, 03:05 PM   #901 (permalink)
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #902 (permalink)
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Quick pic update for y'all:



We are down to surface milling. Of the 3 mills doing surfacing, 2 are having issues. Techs will be out on Thursday to go over them. We will keep up updated from there.
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:45 PM   #903 (permalink)
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Josh,

A couple of questions:

1. You noted that the eyes on the Torque are set up in similar fashion to the Axe. Can you say a bit more about that?

2. You noted the detents are the Exalt 'bridge' type, but I cannot find any information about these. Can you say more about them?

3. In the ergonomics area, is there enough space in the frame for a three finger grip under the trigger guard? And on a similar note, since this is internally plumbed, will there be any possibility of modifying where the ASA sits for the sake of extra comfort/reach/fit, etc.?

4. When these come out are you going to do any additional touring to get more exposure/hands-on time? If so, will you post dates for those of use willing to take a field trip?

5. There was a question earlier about whether this type of spool setup could avoid cold-weather issues, but it got sort of lost in the trolling debacle a few pages back. Can you say more about that?

6. Finally (for now), can you comment a bit on the decision to go with a leaf switch vs. a microswitch for the trigger? Never even heard of a leaf switch until scanning this thread, and did a bit of digging elsewhere, and it seems leaf switches have the potential to be very fast and very sensitive.

7. Finally finally, you mentioned (different?) switches that were being tested in raw form for failure, but which could be replaced easily. This is the quote:

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Originally Posted by J4 Paintball View Post
The initial switches are running with new spools, but on raw aluminum housings, so extended wear could be examined. Some of the guns have exceeded 100,000 cycles before the switch became an issue, so we feel the anodized versions will work far longer. In addition, since it is a removable item, not built in, if there are any major problems it is a quick fix and replacement part. Right now a few of the original switch houses have be 'retired' - but the final versions will be on the gun, with the new dynamics and more venting.
Is this the same switch as for the trigger? Different? What does it all mean?

Pardon the newb-ish questions. I've never owned an electro, know almost nothing about them, and anything pertaining to electronics is pretty well a foreign language to me. But I'm looking to get my first, and trying to get as much up to speed as possible in the meantime.

Thanks very kindly.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:39 PM   #904 (permalink)
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Pardon the newb-ish questions
No worries, might be a good time re-cap a few of these.

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1. You noted that the eyes on the Torque are set up in similar fashion to the Axe. Can you say a bit more about that?
The eyes come up from under the breech on each side with a squarish LED. We also house the HE (Hall Effect) sensor there.

Quote:
2. You noted the detents are the Exalt 'bridge' type, but I cannot find any information about these. Can you say more about them?
Here is a pic from our FB page:



It 'mushes' out of the way instead of flicking back and forth.

Quote:
3. In the ergonomics area, is there enough space in the frame for a three finger grip under the trigger guard? And on a similar note, since this is internally plumbed, will there be any possibility of modifying where the ASA sits for the sake of extra comfort/reach/fit, etc.?
Under the guard most people can get 3 fingers, but that is partially due to the finger grab bar down there we put in on the ASA/Reg. That is basically a pinky grab spot.

In the near future we will build a simple adjuster that can go in there to adjust forward and back, plus any company interested in building to the grip spec can get the CAD to work from for building their own.

Quote:
4. When these come out are you going to do any additional touring to get more exposure/hands-on time? If so, will you post dates for those of use willing to take a field trip?
Yep and Yep. We have the Midwest, Texas area and the East Coast covered. Everything will be posted on FB as they go around and tour, plus any other loose gun out there.

Quote:
5. There was a question earlier about whether this type of spool setup could avoid cold-weather issues, but it got sort of lost in the trolling debacle a few pages back. Can you say more about that?
The initial design of the spool did quite good in cold weather conditions, partially due to not having a really tight dwell window,and the mechanical return of the piston/spool. Part of the HE sensor mentioned above is to cover that also though. The setup is designed to self time to cover anomalies in the cycle. Like FSDO, cold or nasty conditions, or lack of lube. A general warning light will tell you something it up, but due to the timing logic there should be no issue in any weather unless it is really, really bad. And then we have a 'soldier on' setting that should get you out of the worst.

Quote:
6. Finally (for now), can you comment a bit on the decision to go with a leaf switch vs. a microswitch for the trigger? Never even heard of a leaf switch until scanning this thread, and did a bit of digging elsewhere, and it seems leaf switches have the potential to be very fast and very sensitive.

7. Finally finally, you mentioned (different?) switches that were being tested in raw form for failure, but which could be replaced easily. This is the quote:
There is some confusion there, there is a mechanical switch in the gun as part of the firing system. The solenoid trips the switch to fire the gun - we had to use a unique switch because there wasn't an off the shelf solenoidvalve that had the operation and flow we required to make the gun work like we are.

This switch is the firing heart of the gun. The 'board switch' is a standard leaf switch like you would find in just about any paintball gun on the market. We do not have an optical switch, just a normal light microswitch. The board switch is activated by the trigger.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:39 PM   #905 (permalink)
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Good deal all around.

And as for confusion, there is most definitely plenty of it going on on this end.

So trigger switch is the electronic leaf switch, which is a common style, and this in turn activates solenoid, which in turn activates the mechanical switch that engages the spool. Correct? If so, that makes sense. I take it this latter process is what you were referring to when you said that the marker operated on a mechanical platform, also making it additionally unique? And it is this latter mechanical switch that had the wear issues, but has been made more robust and also easily replaced as well?

Most intriguing. Sheesh, the more I learn about this thing the cooler it becomes.

Very much appreciate your patience, sir!

Thanks very kindly.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:58 PM   #906 (permalink)
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One thing that should help the cold tolerance of this design is the diameter of the sealing dynamic o-rings. They all smaller than the typical spool bolt front sizes. I think I see three that are about "ram" size. The temperature change results in less dimensional change in the diameters of the parts. When o-rings get cold, they get reluctant to make up the difference. Some spool bolts have ~0.875 o-rings on them and the fit is very light.

The other thing is that some modern spool cans are very thin. Even if you ream the bore of the tube, it takes a good setup and quality control to avoid tolerance variations. With a good body wall thickness, the bore comes out consistent and you don't have to rely so much on the o-rings flexing.

So yes, I have hope on that small account, even though I rarely play below 40F anymore.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:19 PM   #907 (permalink)
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That's the kind of thing I was guessing at. The o-rings are indeed tiny, much more like a poppet-style marker, and I figured the increased surface area of the spoolies was part of what made cold weather an issue, as well as first shot dropoff.

Part of me doesn't want to get too excited about this thing, as it's well outside my self-imposed price range. But it's so interesting and just ingenious that it's hard to keep away from it. Hence, the other part of me is thinking this might be an exceptional marker in more than one respect.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #908 (permalink)
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Part of me doesn't want to get too excited about this thing, as it's well outside my self-imposed price range.
I am having the same challenge in resisting the urge to get in on the pre-order.

Then I remember this is MCB and there will be several used ones available in 4 months.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #909 (permalink)
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Quick pic update for y'all:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...53472574_o.jpg

We are down to surface milling. Of the 3 mills doing surfacing, 2 are having issues. Techs will be out on Thursday to go over them. We will keep up updated from there.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:40 AM   #910 (permalink)
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I am having the same challenge in resisting the urge to get in on the pre-order.

Then I remember this is MCB and there will be several used ones available in 4 months.
I am sure there will be some "used" ones.. but really you dont want to miss out on ordering one of these
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