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Old 11-30-2006, 09:25 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Well then what is it? It's not a K2.

Did you read this page of the thread?

Mythical Beast Captured.
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:40 AM   #42 (permalink)
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*clears throat*

THERE WAS NEVER A K1!

*cough*

Sorry, nope never. Discussed here and on the old site countless times, never a K1.
Well I would hate to see the Carter crew be not correct either, but to my feelings, this brings about the birth of an un-named beast and I think we as the forefront of vintage and collector paintball should take a vote on what to call these 200 guns (which not many probably are left as Tim said he cut them down to 13")

I vote that the first 200 original 21" be the K1 series
the K1 with pump conversion become now known as the K1-P
and if there was ever away to deceifer you had an early K1 and it was hacked down and a pump put on it, it be similar to how we named the KP-2 DF it can be called the KP-1
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:42 AM   #43 (permalink)
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"Tony,
There were 200 guns made with 21" long barrels. They had the feed tube on the right and the barrel on top so you had to lay them on their side to get them to feed. It was extra lame. They made tri tube pistols Maybe 2 or 3 of them. I gave mine back to David Freeman to put in his museum.
The long guns shot for ****. When we cut the barrels off to 13" they rocked the painball world.
I tried to buy the 200 guns for $70 ($14K) because nobody else could get them to shoot over 200 fps.
I sent a Cashiers Check and those *******s at PMI reniged and sent my money back. A month later I invented the pump because I had to put that money to work fast.
None of these guns were ever fitted with a pump till after the production. I don't know who got them but I converted well over half of them to pump twist dual or bulk.
It was a tri tube set-up and we layed the barrel on the side by turning the action over 90 degrees so the feed tube was on top. They were really accurate. We'de split the stock and slide the front piece on a dowel as the first crude pump. Later we made delrins for these tri tubes. I doubt I have any but if I do it would be the pump to fit to that gun to make it more comfy. You need a longer pump rod also.
It was the first centerfire bolt set-up and it did not break balls in 13" configuration. Even with the centerfire bolt it was a ball breaker in 21" configuration. If that barrel had more than a hint of moisture it would turn into paint soup. Properly cared for a 13" would shoot 10" groups at 150 feet. We followed this pattern with the Annihilator but with a more precision barrel.
The factory was feeding me these long guns to sort out and I kept cutting them off to 13" and dual CO2 converting them. They shot too good. The factory wanted to make them work with a single 12 gram & 21" barrel and I told them to dream on. It wasn't going to happen. Physically impossible.

Later

Tim"

I hope you all find this as interesting as I did..... and now you know....
^As quoted from the Mac Man himself^

the standard K2 had a 14 inch barrel what is a 21 inch barreled gun?
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:45 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Why not just reconise them as special or limited edition K2's?
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Old 11-30-2006, 07:26 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I think beings this was the first run of the K series, as we respectively have the first run of the snipers called Sniper 1's, I believe the first run of K rifles be the K1's, this is just my opinion and I think we should put together a poll on this.
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Old 11-30-2006, 07:46 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Well, who is to say if not us?

Sheridan has gone through so many changes and even McMurray won't work on paintball guns anymore.

K1 is, at best, a fictional name for a "mythical" beast (they cease to be mythical when I see two of them together) but there is none that is better.

It's got my vote for "K1*" The asterix will denote the non-factory designation...

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I still don't get that.
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Old 11-30-2006, 08:34 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Why does it need to be labled?

By the account of Tim McMurray and the original owner of this particular gun, I would leave it as it really is, a "Prototype" as it never really made production. This particular gun was bought from a Sheridan factory employee, (They had one near St. Louis) and then sold to the current owner. Th original owner stated it to be a "Prototype". When we get verification of more than this one, then maybe we can label it? Yea, I know Tim said there were 200, but we havent seen any pics or proof of any others.

And this particular one shots at full velocity..........

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Old 11-30-2006, 09:44 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I tend to agree this should not arbitrarily be labeled anything. I will continue to think of it as an "early 21" K series prototype". It doesn't sound like they were ever offered to the public at the time, so they need no model designation.
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Old 11-30-2006, 09:59 PM   #49 (permalink)
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the reply quoted from Tim that I posted was in return to me sending him a picture of the gun and email asking him if he had anything to do with it or if he knew of where it came from. Why I even ventured that route was after seeing the mojo he created with the dual 12 gram piercing setup. That in itself would lead me to believe this could of been one of those original 200. I am not saying that "this" paticular one is a K1 if that makes you happy, but the fact of the matter is, that there was an original run of K series rifles even if it was done in someones garage, that to me could be denoted as the K1, I guess more then just to be right, I would love to know the history of our great sport.

Before Sheridan in Wisconsin took over the K series, Benjamin was from St. Louis. Both companies were bought by Crosman and then later named Benjamin Sheridan. Early Benjamin Air Rifles have the same style wood stock as the K series.
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:34 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I think of the 21 K series as a prototype. If it wasn't offered to the general public, it's hard to call it something else I suppose.

I guess to really get to the bottom of it, what we need to do is find out WHY the K-2 was called the K-2. Was there a reason? Was it a K-2 because the 2 meant is was the second one? It would make sense, because there WAS a KP-3, and they changed the 2, to a 3. Or was that just a natural progression after STARTING with a 2?

I was told they started with the 2. Therefore, there could never be a 1.... It's like the sniper II's. They started at serial number 2000 and worked their way up. Serial number 1500 - 1999 never existed. It's just how things were arbitrarily done back then. So we can't slap numbers to stuff if we aren't sure yet.

Definitely need to know more. But as I stated, if it started out as a K-2, it's kind of hard to find a K-1, but instead just a K-2 Prototype.
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