Paintball

[CJOttawa]

Let's get this going!

Here's a list of all the common "pistol" format paintball guns I can think of.

I'd like to see the details filled in, including strengths and weaknesses, upgrades, fixes etc.

Semi-Automatic - Blow Back
(possibly fully-automatic with an appropriate gripframe)

• Warsensor Zeus & Zeus G2
• Ariakon Overlord
• Delta 68
• PT Extreme
• BT SA-17
• Kingmann Training .43 caliber pistols (Chaser & Eraser) - magazine fed

Semi-Automatic - NON-blow-back

• Tiberius 8 & 8.1 - magazine fed, 12-gram in magazine - blow-forward design, similar to a 68 Automag
• Tippmann TPX - magazine fed
• AGD Sydarm - based on the Classic 68 Automag, an efficient, quiet, reliable "blow-forward" design
• PPS Stroker - Palmer Pursuit Shop offers auto-cocking conversions of pump-action, Sheridan-based markers such as the PGP and dubs them "Stroker."
• PPS Squall -a ground-up build of an auto-cocking pistol but otherwise similar to a Stroker conversion

Manual Action (pump, revolver etc)

• CCI Micro-Phantom - a breech-drop Nelson-based gun. Not originally designed as a sidearm, the Phantom is now offered in a "micro-Phantom" configuration with a stock class feed, drop-out or bucket changer and short barrel and pump handle. A "DuckSlide" kit is available for it that gives it the look and feel of a DD68 Redux Duck. The CCI Phantom is likely the best supported, recognized and available marker of any pump or pistol.
• PGP & PGP 2K - three tube, brass, Sheridan valve design pump action pistol. Newer "2K" models have a longer barrel making them look distinctly different from the original but they perform similarly.
• Nelspot 007 - the original, steel, two-tubed, stock-class, breech-drop Nelson valve design that all Nelson guns are derived from. Originally without a pump handle, the Nelspot 007 - or "Nellie" - had a re-cocking bolt that stuck out the left side of the gun and could be locked in place similar to a bolt-action rifle. Later models had pump handles that simply slid over the body of the gun and were linked to the action with the same bolt originally used to cock the gun. 12-gram cartridges were in grip with later models offering rear drop-out valves, back bottle ASA valves or grips that allowed faster in-grip 12-gram changes. See this thread: Nelson Owners Group Information
• Boxgun & variants - evolved from the Nelspot, modern Redux variant has a replaceable barrel that takes Freak inserts. More user friendly than the Duck, the Boxgun has less tendency to pinch paint.
• DD68 Duck & variants - stock class, pump action pistol with a moving slide and feed tube. Gas is in grip or via rear BBA/Rat-attack changer. Ducks evolved from the Nelspot and the modern Redux variant has a replaceable barrel that takes Freak inserts. The moving slide and offset feed tends to pinch paint if the user isn't very careful about pump stroke making the DD68 Redux a challenge for all but the most die-hard stock class players.
• Brass Eagle Nightmare SB (short-barrel) - similar vintage to the original Nelspot 007 and PGP.
• DRV "Dukie Revolver" - a five-shot+, .68 caliber, single-action, stock class revolver. CO2 is loaded into a quick-threaded bucket changer housed inside the grip. Paint is loaded into a five-shot cylinder and can also be loaded into a spring feed mounted under the barrel which will refill the cylinder chambers as they pass the spring feed.
• NSG Splatmaster - don't discount the humble "Splatty." Mostly plastic including the bolt, barrel, clamshell and trigger, they are fairly easily upgraded with metal parts. "KidneyThief" did a limited run of kits that replaced almost every plastic part with metal ones, making the "Splatty" a potential "sleeper" gun, a wolf in plastic sheep clothing.

Sidearms you probably don't want
(unless you're a collector, tinkerer, machinist or millionaire)

• Crosman 3357 - a 1980's, double-action revolver design which is becoming difficult to find support. The 3357 uses .50 caliber paint, loaded into 6-shot cylinders like a real revolver. 12-gram CO2 cartridges are loaded into the handle, similar to the Nelspot.
• AGA 62 - See the 3357 above. The AGA 62 used .62 caliber paint, was a double-action revolver-style pistol that held paint in a spring loaded magazine.
• NSG Splatmaster Rapide - not fair to call it "semi-automatic" as it uses a relatively heavy "double-action" trigger to both cock and fire, similar to the later GZ-2000. Magazine fed, in-grip 12-gram with optional constant air adaptor and optional longer barrel.
• Winchester Pump - 12-gram in grip, plastic all over, direct feed, prone to failure; this gun will require a lot of tinkering to make it usable.
• Brass Eagle .68Eagle - plastic, tends to self-destruct
• FAST Armed Forces Trainer "AFT" - magazine fed, based on the F1 or F2 Illustrator. Uses 12-gram capsules with an option for constant air. Long out of production and difficult to find parts for. Generally an excellent marker but the lack of parts would make this a poor choice for all but tinkerers or people with other guns as backups.

Post on whatever gun you're an expert on.

Try to cite sources of information such as other threads here on the forum.

[SockMonkey]

not an expert on it by any means, never even seen one in real life. but how about AGD's Sydarm.

[zenmic]

Not a huge expert either, but do you want to include the Phantom as a pistol as well, since it has components to turn it into a pistol quite easily?

[chadders]

how dose the overlord rx compare to the bt sa-17,+ you missed the rap4 * or is it crap4 i forget. also the goblins

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by cjottawa

[*]CCI Phantom - a bore-drop Nelson-based gun. Not originally designed as a sidearm, CCI and others have offered this gun in a "micro-Phantom" configuration with a stock class feed, drop-out or bucket changer and short barrel and pump handle. A "DuckSlide" kit is available for it that gives it the look and feel of a DD68 Redux.

Isn't the Phantom breech drop? How about the DSDS pistol and Eagle .68. They're a little obscure yeah but they're out there.

I'll update with some more info in a few. Need to get some breakfast.

[CJOttawa]

Originally Posted by Deuce

Isn't the Phantom breech drop? How about the DSDS pistol and Eagle .68. They're a little obscure yeah but they're out there.

I'll update with some more info in a few. Need to get some breakfast.

YUP! Brain-hiccup there... it's the same as a Nelspot or Duck. I even had the image in my head but wrote bore instead of breech. Thanks for catching that.

I'll add those momentarily! There's also the Splatmaster, Winchester pump, Brass Eagle Talon Ghost and new JT ER2 (Talon 2?) which I think should be mentioned.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by cjottawa

YUP! Brain-hiccup there... it's the same as a Nelspot or Duck. I even had the image in my head but wrote bore instead of breech. Thanks for catching that.

I'll add those momentarily! There's also the Splatmaster, Winchester pump, Brass Eagle Talon Ghost and new JT ER2 (Talon 2?) which I think should be mentioned.

And the Brass Eagle Raptor pump. I would call that thing the Talon 2 lol.

[hellbatman]

Mod85?
Maybe the DRV[Dukie ReVolver]? Though...given they were a very small run...I could see why you could/would omit them.

-curtis

[skullcandy1993]

Originally Posted by cjottawa

Let's get this going!

Here's a list of all the common "pistol" format paintball guns I can think of.

I'd like to see the details filled in, including strengths and weaknesses, upgrades, fixes etc.

Semi-Automatic
(possibly fully-automatic with an appropriate gripframe)

• Warsensor Zeus & Zeus G2
• Ariakon Overlord
• Delta 68
• PT Extreme
• Tiberius 8 & 8.1 - clip fed, 12-gram in clip
• Tippmann TPX - clip fed
• BT SA-17
• Kingmann Training .43 caliber pistols (Chaser & Eraser) - clip fed
• AGD Sydarm
• FAST Armed Forces Trainer (AFT - an Illustrator variant)

Alright, well I don't know how much of an "expert" I am, more like experienced, but here's my input on the Tiberius T8 and T8.1

As I have used both at one point or another they are both very solid guns. However, I would take the T8 over the T8.1 any day of the week because of their few subtle differences.

These differences are:

• 2 piece receiver (T8) vs 1 piece receiver (T8.1)
• 2 types of magazines (T8) vs 1 type of magazine (T8.1)
• Solid trigger guard (T8) vs Bottom hole in the trigger guard (T8.1)
• .68 cal only out of the box (T8) vs .68 cal and First Strike out of the box (T8.1)

I'll go into the differences between the two pistols later, but first...I'll tell you all about strengths/weaknesses/etc of the Tiberius pistols as a whole.

Strengths:
Right from the word 'go' you have the fact that they are self-regulated. Which, for those of you who don't know, means that your shots are going to be more consistant than those that come out of a non-regulated marker (such as the SA-17 NO BASHING INTENDED-JUST USING AN EXAMPLE). Next, accuracy. Tiberius markers (pistol or otherwise) are extremely accurate, just by design. There are two detents placed directly into the barrel which ensures that the round (FS or otherwise) is hit at exactly the same place every time. Couple this fact with the fact that the guns are self-regulated and you have a very accurate gun.

Next, maintenance is a very simple as the gun is not too complex. As long as you take time to get to know your guns you wont have any problems.

Another strength is based in the magazines. Just the magazine alone is a feat of engineering. Not only is the paint housed in the magazine, but the CO2 is as well. This means you will have one of the fastest reloads on the field.

One final strength is the fact that there are no external moving parts. Now I know this is common of pistols, but still a great selling feature.

Weaknesses:
The biggest weakness I always hear and everyone will always tell you about is the size of the marker, but namely the grip. And, yes...the grip is fairly large, but think about what is inside of the grip. Inside the grip is a magazine which houses everything needed to feed your marker. So basically what all of this means is that if you have small hands or don't feel comfortable holding a large gun then the I would not suggest this one.

Another weakness (and this is a fairly small gripe) is the magazine release. Tiberius claims that it is an ambidextrous release, but we all know that it causes problems for us rightys.

The only other weakness I can think of off the top of my head is the lack of a remote line option. The T8.1 will have a remote line option eventually, but no one knows when that is going to be released. The remote line through the magazine will work, but is not very efficient since you have to buy an adapter for every magazine you have.

Suggested Fixes/Upgrades:
There isn't a whole lot of choice as far as upgrades go, but there are a few choices. There are a couple of barrels, and there are rails/compensators...Thats about it though.

For barrels your choices are either the stock Tiberius barrel (which is pretty decent for a stock barrel), a Flasc barrel (which I have used, but not on a Tiberius marker), and a Lapco barrel (which I have had the great pleasure of using and owning for my Tiberius markers). The Flasc and Lapco barrels are an obvious improvement on the stock barrels (or else everyone would just be using stock barrels), but in a direct comparison for performance Lapco is the winner. Now I do not mean to discredit Flasc, their barrels are great too, but the performance is slightly diminished. The performance is greatly relected by price as I believe that it is about a 35-40 dollar difference between Flasc and Lapco. So if you can shell out the extra cash go for the Lapco. If you want some more money to spend on paint or 12 grams or to continue gunwhoring on MCB then Flasc is your best route.

The only other real accessory for your T8(.1) is a compensator or the Tiberius brand rail (and then whatever attachment you want to put on that rail). You can get high quality compensators from CQB in Toronto, Canada or you can search the internet (aka...MCB) to try to find a used UMS one. There is also the cheap Chinese knockoff and you can find those on Ebay.

As for fixes, there are a few minor changes you can make to improve your Tiberius pistol experience. First, (and only if you have the cash) get in touch with Fixxer or Betasniper on the Tiberius forums and see if they have any right-handed magazine releases left or ask Fixxer if he has any custom triggers lying around. Other than that, you could try stippling the grip, or cutting a slot so you can see how many rounds you have left, but these aren't necessary, so make sure you like your pistol(s) before you start messing with them.


Differences between the T8 and the T8.1:
As I mentioned before, there are a few differences between the T8 and its successor, the T8.1.

to restate these differences they are:

• 2 piece receiver (T8) vs 1 piece receiver (T8.1)
• 2 types of magazines (T8) vs 1 type of magazine (T8.1)
• Solid trigger guard (T8) vs Bottom hole in the trigger guard (T8.1)
• .68 cal only out of the box (T8) vs .68 cal and First Strike out of the box (T8.1)

I will go through each difference and try to explain whether it is a good thing or a bad thing.

2 piece receiver (T8) vs 1 piece receiver (T8.1):
This is not too important, but if you are into modding and have any interest in creating a T8.5 (which I will eventually) you need a 2 piece receiver. If you aren't a modder, and don't intend to use the remote air adapter the change is purely cosmetic

2 types of magazines (T8) vs 1 type of magazine (T8.1):
This is a fairly important change and this (I believe) is one of the reasons that the T8 is superior. The Tiberius T8 can utilize both the regular .68 cal only magazines and the FS magazines, while the Tiberius T8.1 can only utilize the FS magazines. This is a fairly obvious setback in my opinion, but if you like it then more power to you.

Solid trigger guard (T8) vs Bottom hole in the trigger guard (T8.1):
This is a very very very very very minor gripe of mine, but it is a gripe none the less. In the trigger guard of the older T8s the bottom is completely solid. The trigger guard of the newer T8s and the T8.1s have a hole in the bottom so that you can access the screw that now faces downward (the head faces upwards on the old T8s). This hole is big enough for dirt and such to get in and is also big enough to start a crack from. As I said...very minor, but there none the less.

.68 cal only out of the box (T8) vs .68 cal and First Strike out of the box (T8.1):
This is the one huge improvement that the T8.1 has over the T8 (I don't count the remote air adapter yet because it doesn't exist). It is fairly self explanatory, the Tiberius T8.1 is able to use both regular .68 cal paintballs as well as Tiberius' First Strike rounds, right out of the box. With the T8 on the other hand, you must go out and purchase a conversion kit with a new barrel, bolt, and spring in order to use the First Strike rounds.


And thats all I can come up with for the moment, I'm sure I missed something so just let me know and I will update my post.


Thanks for reading, and HUGE thanks to cjottawa for staring this thread (it really would have helped when I started pistol play)

PS.

[chplnstone]

3357 and aga62's as well...