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Old 06-06-2012, 12:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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T9.1SD "Totmacher" (Deadmaker) 56K Beware

This thread is a bit overdue. I posted it originally over on TechPB and I thought I had posted it here but, apparently I haven't. Some of these pics have appeared here and there in this forum but, I've not given it a proper introduction. For that, I apologize.

Background: Once the Tiberius Arms First Strike Rounds came out, I knew I wanted to build a functional 'sniper' rifle. Meaning no extra fluff, just pure headshot business. I thought my final primary marker would be the T9.0 but, I found it wanting as I began to tire of having to disconnect the airline and lose a bit more than 1ci of 850PSI air, just to change mags.

Enter the 9.1 with it's remote line ready ASA. Then Tiberius Arms Upgraded the ante with the LAPCO manufactured Rifled Barrel. Now, I'm not going to try to say that the Rifled barrel is a substantial improvement over a good smoothbore barrel (i.e. LAPCO or Flasc) but, to my unaided eye, I can say it looks at least as good. I'll hold final judgment until someone can do some well-documented, indoor performance testing.

So, I ordered one, and began putting my own 'personal' touches to it. I was really crunched for time as I wanted to have it ready for a LL4 unveil. Nothing too fancy or exotic (like the woodstalker Ion, in my sig) but, I'll go over that towards the end of this post. For those who didn't see it at LL4, or LL5:

The Pics:






The Specs:
  • Tiberius Arms T9.1 Ranger
  • Tiberius Arms (LAPCO) Rifled Barrel
  • Polished Air Chamber
  • Polished Firing Bolt
  • Polished Firing Pin
  • Filled in body holes.
  • Custom Magazine Window
  • Custom Suppressor (it's built similarly to the SP-8 Stealth Shroud)
  • Modified Tiberius Arms FSR Adjustable Riser (Length Cut down)
  • Lucid HD7 Multi-Reticle Dot Sight with 2x Magnifier
  • Quick Disconnect Sling Mount
  • Blackhawk Universal Swift Sling (3-Pt)
  • UTG Rail Covers (Bottom ones not shown in pics)
  • Custom Four Color Duracoat Camo Pattern (Dark Green to Light Green Fades with Tan-Dark Brown Digital shapes)
The Paintjob:
Generally, this was an improvement over my Woodstalker Ion. I picked better green shades and, brown shades as the ones I used previously really weren't different enough to get the shading I wanted. The theory behind it is that in natural scenes greens rarely fade to browns (like one sees in Omnipat or, Multicam patterns). Instead, I've noticed that browns fade to tans, and Dark Greens into light greens. Also, the greens I picked are satin/semi-gloss finishes while the browns are ultra-flats. This is intended to simulate the shining effect of leaves over flat dirt and branch features. I took some pics of the suppressor (I don't feel comfortable walking with the entire gun down the street to the park) in some outdoor environments to get an idea how the colors matched up.

This pic really shows how well the greens match the vegetation at the edge of a woodline. The tans also match the dead material.

This pic shows how the tans match up with the earth. It also shows something unavoidable with 2D camo patterns- unnatural (straight-horizontal) shadows draw the eye. This is why I added the netting, which is easily removable.



Living Legends 4 was it's debut and it performed well. The suppressor's an interesting thing. To me, while shooting it, it still sounds surprisingly loud. However in game, I received several unsolicited comments on how quiet it was. More importantly, I fired four spaced shots at Blue's Crew while I was only lying in the roadside grass, and from 40yards away, they couldn't locate me until I fired a fifth shot while they were looking right at me.

Issues and Solution:
Barrel Jams- after 80-100 of these rounds, I would get a barrel jam that wouldn't clear unless I took a 5/8 dowel and pushed the round/s through manually. Solution: Run a pull through squeegie through it halfway through the day (about every 60-80 rounds), and you're good.

Velocity Inconsistency- The Rifled Barrel out of the box, is less consistent than .690 LAPCO, or Factory Smoothbore barrels. Enough so that it clearly impacts vertical spread. The cause is due to the need to turn up the output of the gun's reg, driving it outside of it's optimal operating range. You can try upping or possibly lowering your input source (i.e. a Ninja tank with a SHP or SLP reg).

Finally, here it is in action at LL4:


This is the final year that this marker will be my primary. Between the toy I got (to be unveiled when I've customized it to my liking), and other toys coming to market, I'm ready to change platforms.

The Tiberius markers are not a great platform, they just have happened to be the best platform for a time.
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FN303SD Totmacher 13 | SP 'Woodstalker' Ion | 1989 Line SI Bushmaster SI Deluxe
First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs | My Feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Impressive setup as always halo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
The Tiberius markers are not a great platform, they just have happened to be the best platform for a time.
Interesting. I've found them a great out of the box platform for semi-auto First Strikes. What is it that you've found that is better?

Last I checked the SAR12, RAP4 D-Mags, and Milsig First Strike capable markers/mags were not out yet. And not being out yet...

I've been hoping to try a D-Mag'd Phenom for first strikes for quite a while now... but it still hasn't happened.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The modified FN303 is probably the best platform, but its availability is much more difficult.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaccen View Post
The modified FN303 is probably the best platform, but its availability is much more difficult.
Maybe it's "better" but it does require modification to reach field safe velocity. Also I can't get my hands on one
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Main: Dual Tiberius Pistols 9.1/8.1 FS Only
Secondary: Dual Tiberius Pistols Custom Polished Non-FS
Pistol Rigs: 6-12 Mag Dual Pistol Rig, Single Pistol 4 Mag Rig
Tertiary: 2k2 Blue Shoebox Shocker / 16" .689 CP / 88-4500 Classic Maxflow / BluApache
+ too many ol' Shoebox Shockers for loaners.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDooAddict View Post
Impressive setup as always halo.
Interesting. I've found them a great out of the box platform for semi-auto First Strikes. What is it that you've found that is better?
Thanks for the compliment!!

Even now that I have the velocity fluctuations under control, it's a rare day that I don't have a full 100rds fired without a breach break. Things have improved somewhat since I installed the Killjoy Trigger and, the LAPCO mag release but, the actual cause(s) is(are) undetermined. I am running the correct mag springs, my detents are in great shape, and I've polished down the internal areas of the mags where the follower rubs. This has happened at the chrono station with mags loaded there (this shows it's not the rounds getting damaged in game while in mag pouches). Just about a month and a half ago, I experienced my first walk-on day without a breach break.

I'll link a video later (can't get to it from here) but, there's another odd problem that has reared it's head a couple times- inability to seat the mag. This will be best explained by watching the video. The messed up part is, this isn't exactly a complicated mechanism but, yet I can't figure out just how this happens.

Finally, it comes down to Tiberius Arms as a company. As individuals the employees have pretty good customer service (Especially since Waverly started with them). If you need a new part, etc, they'll help you out, they'll take your marker and return it pretty quickly. However, if it's anything more complicated than that (i.e. a problem inherent to the design), they simply will not help you.

For example, the barrel jam problem associated with the Rifled barrel. They took my marker, replaced the o-ring between the ASA and the body, sent it back. The problem persisted. Ultimately, after many, many rounds fired, and breach breaks experienced, talking to Sergey from LAPCO, and, Eric from Tiberius, I figured out that you need to clean the barrel, after every 80-100rds, even if you don't have a barrel/breach break. Failure to do

Or in the case of the Velocity Consistency issue (link to the thread where I posted my findings). In addition to impacting my Big Game, and walk on play, the gun literally cost me a first place win in the Eastern U.S. Top Paintball Sniper competition. Five shots for five targets at different ranges, you need to hit the targets in a specific order (to each shooter). It should have been a cakewalk for me. I had all of the necessary range elevations on my card. I hit my first target fine. Second target, after adjusting my elevation for the known range, I miss low. I then apply 24" of holdover, I hit the same spot. My third shot with the same holdover, flew way over the target. Later on, I did extensive velocity testing. I found that with the rifled barrel, the Standard Deviation (SD) of my shots to be 12.72FPS. This stands in stark contrast to what I got with the LAPCO .690 barrel (SD = 4.68). In case it's not clear, double those numbers to determine what you would expect for approximately 95% of your shots to be within. If this marker had been more consistant, I would've placed competitively in this round and would have taken first place.

When I contacted Tiberius Arms, Eric initially tried to tell me, "you're never going to have a perfect paintball gun", when I re-iterated that I was trying to get my velocity back to what I had with the smoothbore, he had no solutions, no information (couldn't answer what the spring rate of the regulator spring was- as this would help me obtain a better spring), and ultimately said that the engineers (who would be able to answer questions or develop a solution) were too busy with the other portion of their market (less lethal).

Ultimately, I had to spend my own time and money to develop a work around, working with Ray from Ninja, Sergey from LAPCO, Palmer's Pursuit, and personal friends of mine.

As for my future, Stay tuned (I usually don't post anything 'til it's done).
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FN303SD Totmacher 13 | SP 'Woodstalker' Ion | 1989 Line SI Bushmaster SI Deluxe
First Strike Round Field Listing | External Ballistics, FSRs and PBs | My Feedback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kaye -in response to FS price critics
Unfortunately all of you have played the one "speedball" game of paintball for so long you can't conceive of other ways to do this and hence any new ideas seem stupid.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm quite familiar with the consistency issues of the .683 Lapco/Tib rifled barrels. And the tweaks to input pressure that have been done to help deal with it. (We've been running 600psi input for our testing) Been doing quite a few tests with Chicago on Lapco vs the Hammerheads (both the 8" and '14"' styles). I've also seen the mysterious breach breaks on the Lapco .683. Just not with quite the same frequency as you.

More testing is needed. But after 50+ rounds of testing on each barrel type so far. (Lapco Rifle, Hammerhead Rifle, and Flasc smooth bore.) A few things are clear:

- FPS consistency and efficiency of the hammerheads have been much better. There's a 50-60 feet per second advantage to the 14" (11.5") hammerheads over the Lapco 14". Lapco shooting low 280's and Hammerhead shooting high 330s with the same reg setting.
- The hammerhead consistency at this point has lead to less vertical deviation at this point in testing. Immediate followup shots have been within +/-4 fps on the hammerhead 8". Where with the Lapco 8" it is common to see +/-10 fps on the followup shots. Even more deviation on the Lapco 14"
- Lapco rifled and hammerhead rifled are producing much better shot groupings than smooth bores. The smooth bore Flasc (and some testing with the stock) have been getting groupings 18-24" from center at 40 yards. While the rifled barrels are getting groupings within 6-8" at 40 yards.
- Mock silencer/suppressor tips (Flasc, Hammerhead M50, Lapco) ... While many help to redirect the sound back towards the shooter to help us stay unnoticed for followup shots... have a measurable negative impact on the shot groupings of rifled barrels. Smooth bore barrels have little if any accuracy degradation due to the tips. Sadly this testing has immediately convinced me to stop using my beloved Flasc mock suppressors on my First strike setups, and use them exclusively on my older paintball only (smooth bore) Tiberius setups.


At this point over 50 FS have gone through the hammerheads and no mysterious breach breaks. I know that at this point it's a small sample size, but it's still encouraging.

Once satisfied with the initial sample size I hope to run a small batch of the same tests on a different 9.1 to verify that the amazing consistency I'm getting on the hammerheads isn't just a fluke with that particular 9.1.



... Note this is all done with First strikes. No paintball testing has been done. Seems kinda silly.
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Main: Dual Tiberius Pistols 9.1/8.1 FS Only
Secondary: Dual Tiberius Pistols Custom Polished Non-FS
Pistol Rigs: 6-12 Mag Dual Pistol Rig, Single Pistol 4 Mag Rig
Tertiary: 2k2 Blue Shoebox Shocker / 16" .689 CP / 88-4500 Classic Maxflow / BluApache
+ too many ol' Shoebox Shockers for loaners.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Nice setup UV. I like the way you think, where you aren't trying to replicate any one real steel gun but are just building the best gun for your style of play.

Also curious what you got next. Is it still a semi auto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDooAddict View Post
- Mock silencer/suppressor tips (Flasc, Hammerhead M50, Lapco) ... have a measurable negative impact on the shot groupings of rifled barrels. ...Sadly this testing has immediately convinced me to stop using my beloved Flasc mock suppressors on my First strike setups,
So what do you have on the FS barrels? Ton of open porting? Muzzle brake? Non ported barrel?

Is there currently a Hammerhead barrel that is rifled well for FSR and is cocker threaded? If so, what is it's bore size?
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dundadun View Post
So what do you have on the FS barrels? Ton of open porting? Muzzle brake? Non ported barrel?
Still doing testing when we've got time... so far the best for a rifled barrel seems to be just running it completely non-ported (i.e. just a thread cover). It's loud but there's nothing to interfere with the pre-spun FSR that way. We suspect that the reason for the poor shot groupings on the mock suppressors is that the spinning FS round catches the suppressor's 4-5" of smooth bore differently on each shot. Sadly, neither of us has the high speed camera equipment necessary to really see what's happening.

Muzzel breaks that are short and have a very large bore size have also been doing well with similar groupings to just using a thread cover. Oddly enough ... the Lapco Dishka Thunder tip has also been getting very good groupings:
Lapco Dishka Thunder Tip - STR8Shot and BigShot Assault (Sadly though it doesn't holster well, so I haven't used it in a real game.)
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Main: Dual Tiberius Pistols 9.1/8.1 FS Only
Secondary: Dual Tiberius Pistols Custom Polished Non-FS
Pistol Rigs: 6-12 Mag Dual Pistol Rig, Single Pistol 4 Mag Rig
Tertiary: 2k2 Blue Shoebox Shocker / 16" .689 CP / 88-4500 Classic Maxflow / BluApache
+ too many ol' Shoebox Shockers for loaners.
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Damn bro this is one sexy marker great job!
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDooAddict View Post
... best for a rifled barrel seems to be just running it completely non-ported (i.e. just a thread cover).... We suspect that the reason for the poor shot groupings on the mock suppressors is that the spinning FS round catches the suppressor's 4-5" of smooth bore differently on each shot...
... Oddly enough ... the Lapco Dishka Thunder tip has also been getting very good groupings:
Interesting. Honestly I was hoping to run the lapco hush ported tip but now I am thinking I will need a custom muzzle break(covered by a reversed dishka style chunk of aluminum)
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