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Old 08-04-2011, 11:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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New to mags. Please help.

Hello.* Iím a newbie posting for the first time.* Iím having a blast with my new mag but as most of you know, thereís always room for some improvement.* I was hoping for some guidance as I find myself in a dilemma.* Some quick info:
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Gun:
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Tac One /* X-valve / gun could be mistaken for new / ULT trigger / bought an RT on/off in town with 3 shims / level 10 gold spring / carrier 0 with 3 shims / intelli frame / Armageddon reg @ 1000 psi / dye rotor
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When I bought the gun on ebay the seller mentioned a slight air leak after the first shot but then goes away.* Sure enough, his assessments were true.* The gun fires great.* My ultimate goals with this gun is to have the RT (reactive trigger?) with the ULT.* Iíve seen videos on youtube with people who have achieved 20bps with a ULT.* I tried swapping out the ULT with the RT on/off I picked up but I ended up with one shot then a dead trigger.* Not sure what happened on that.* At the end of the day, I decided that I liked the feel of the ULT much better.* So my goal has not really changed of trying to get a reactive trigger with the ULT.* So does anyone know specifically how to RT a ULT?
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I was thinking of possibly adding to the 3 shims on the ULT.*
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What exactly does adding shims to the ULT do anyways?
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Am I focusing in the right area?* Should I be looking at shims on the level 10?
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Should I be focusing more on the output pressure?
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I know itís a lot of questions right off the bat.* Any help would be greatly appreciated by a future mag addict.
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Old 08-04-2011, 02:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Firstly: Asterisks are not used for sentence punctuation. My eyes are bleeding.

There are two ways to achieve reactivity on a Mag trigger: use the R/T on/off and increase the input pressure, or add more shims to the ULT...and increase the input pressure.

The primary purpose of the ULT is to reduce the weight of the trigger pull. Adding shims to the ULT reduces the trigger pull. A properly tuned ULT will have just enough shims in it that it does not create an RT effect. At that point your trigger should be pretty light.

So, if you want the RT effect with the ULT, add shims until you get it. You can add too many shims, though, so only add as many as you need.

Also, another point: The Level 10 shims fit the ULT, but they are thicker than the regular ULT shims. So if you need more ULT shims but you've run out, you can replace them with Level 10 shims. I believe the Level 10 shims are three times the thickness of a ULT shim.

My Mag has an X-Valve with ULT and 1000psi input. I have just enough shims in my ULT that I have a very small RT sweet spot on the trigger. A single pull results in a single shot, but if I hold a finger in just the right at the top of the trigger I get the full RT effect.

Hope that helps.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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IIRC, one Level 10 shim is equal to two ULT shims. Also, look for the Youtube video on installing the Level 10, as it sounds like you may have gotten some bolt stick (your description of a "dead trigger"). It's very likely you won't need any shims in the powertube for the Level 10.

Shimming the ULT has the effect lengthening the on/off, thereby shortening your on/off pin (relatively speaking). This can cause the RT effect.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
IIRC, one Level 10 shim is equal to two ULT shims.
Is true. L10 shim = 0.010", ULT shim = 0.005"

Level 10s only need shims if the bolt will not bleed off and reset when it gets stopped early (ball jam).

Oh, sections 13 and 14 are good, if not the whole level 10 troubleshooting and ULT troubleshooting stickies in the tech forum.

https://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214736

As well as Rudz' sticky above!
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Last edited by Spider!; 08-04-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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yeah the ULT shim is half the size of the LvL 10 shim! welcome ezlyf to tha Mag addiction! we gonna get mag RT'in Friday!!!
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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My apologies with the asterisks. lol Text didn't copy and pasted as i intended. I added shims to the ULT (2 if i recall) swapped outta carrier from a 0 to1. Adjusted output pressure to 900 psi. Trigger is very light and easily RT'ing. Problem i have is that i kept shooting out the foam piece. Also, the gun fires even with the trigger safety on with the slightest touch. I have a hole in the wall to prove it lol. Any suggestions on a fix?
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezlyf View Post
My apologies with the asterisks. lol Text didn't copy and pasted as i intended. I added shims to the ULT (2 if i recall) swapped outta carrier from a 0 to1. Adjusted output pressure to 900 psi. Trigger is very light and easily RT'ing. Problem i have is that i kept shooting out the foam piece. Also, the gun fires even with the trigger safety on with the slightest touch. I have a hole in the wall to prove it lol. Any suggestions on a fix?
There should be about a credit card's width of a gap between the back of the trigger (pushed forward) and the trigger rod when the marker is gassed up. If not, you need to turn the trigger rod in at least a turn (the threads are 32/in). That should get you off the sear.

I saw just this week that guys were having good luck on foamies with Gorilla glue. Be sure and clean off the old glue and oil. After scraping the old glue, use some alcohol and wipe off the bolt and the foamie. When they get oil in the foam, it's hard for any glue to stick. Try dish soap and water on them if they are really oily, especially since gorilla glue doesn't mind (likes) water.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
There should be about a credit card's width of a gap between the back of the trigger (pushed forward) and the trigger rod when the marker is gassed up. If not, you need to turn the trigger rod in at least a turn (the threads are 32/in). That should get you off the sear.

I saw just this week that guys were having good luck on foamies with Gorilla glue. Be sure and clean off the old glue and oil. After scraping the old glue, use some alcohol and wipe off the bolt and the foamie. When they get oil in the foam, it's hard for any glue to stick. Try dish soap and water on them if they are really oily, especially since gorilla glue doesn't mind (likes) water.
Find a glue that stays flexible....that will keep them on!
I found a tube at WALGREENS...next to gorilla!
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Gorilla glue is good stuff and will probably work because it is exceedingly tough and in its cured form is impervious to most normal liquids. However, it may get messy, and is inconsistent when it comes to bonding things to metals.

Cyanoacrylates on the other hand are brittle but are very good at joining plastics and rubbers to metals, which is why AGD has always recommended using one of these for the foamies. If you keep losing them you may either not be using a real cyanoacrylate glue, or else are applying too much/too little, or else haven't properly cleaned your surfaces. Be sure you are using the right adhesive, such as the plain old Superglue trade name glue. Dirt cheap, and works like magic for this application.

If you do go the GG route, it is more involved.

Poly glues react with water, and in so doing foam and expand. You will want to just slightly moisten one side of the foamie. This will be the side that contacts the glue. Not wet. Slightly moist. Less is better. Even ambient moisture will suffice, though it takes a bit longer and can be inconsistent owing to humidity.

Make sure you clean the bolt face thoroughly with alcohol or acetone.

If a cyanoacrylate glue was used previously you will need to use acetone to fully remove it. Alcohol works, but not nearly as well. Scraping trumps all (though you still need to use a solvent before calling it clean).

Place a single (small) drop of GG on the bolt face, then place the foamie moistened side down on the bolt face, twist it a couple times to evenly distribute the glue across the surface of the foamie, and line everything up. Unlike SG, you will have a nice long while to do this.

Then you will want to place one or two fat rubber bands lengthwise on the bolt assembly in order to apply pressure to the foamie so that the glue doesn't foam it off the surface of the bolt (no pun intended). With poly glues, tight tolerances = strong, and loose tolerances = foam = weak.

Let it cure 24 hours before using it. If a little of the glue has foamed out of the join, simply use a pick or exacto knife to trim it off.

And don't be sad if it doesn't work. If done correctly it should work famously, as Spider! has alluded to, but this probably isn't an ideal application for a poly glue.

In any case, Good luck!
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I used a slightly different method. I cleaned off the bolt face and then quickly swabbed one side of the foamy with a damp tissue. Then I applied an extremely thin layer of GG to the damp side of the foamy by using a toothpick. Then I pressed it in place to the bolt face, and stuck the bolt (foamy side down) on the shelf overnight. I haven't had a problem losing the foamy since I did that last winter.
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