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Old 10-16-2017, 05:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
The thoughts behind alternative calibers were always misguided attempts to get an edge in performance, or particular design requirements .
All the later.
With both the 3357, and SMG-60, the smaller caliber was used specifically due to limits of the valve. The Mod85 was limited due to the case size. The .62 caliber stuck around for a little while in pumps since it was common to allow guns to run 350fps using smaller calibers.

The 3357, Mod85 and early .43 Qui Wein guns were not designed to play paintball, but instead target practice, and LEO training. For the longest time, the oddball calibers were just novelties, but lots of fields now offer "low impact paintball" using .50 guns. Seems a good way to introduce new players.

There has been some bigger calibers too. There was that .70 format. Lazerball? I don't remember. Plus the notorious .75 from Bob Long. In the early 90s. Bob Long noticed that tournament rules originally did not specify a caliber since... well, only .68 was around (and smaller). So, he had Bullseye secretly make some .75, to use in custom guns.

Running 300fps, the .75 paint gave him a huge range advantage for woodsball. Ironman did this for some time before the secret got out, and tournaments had to restrict caliber sizes. Insurance companies (ie APL) also stepped in.

This is what basically killed any caliber other then .68 because when SP tried to push .50, they ran into insurance problems that now restrict all calibers to 300. They needed .50 to run at 400 to be competative, but APL absolutely refused... so, basically killing .50 as a "high end" alternative.

Anyway, for the original question- It was a common encapsulation die size. Nelson contracted Crosman who determined that .68 was the largest die size that they could get to reliably fire from an airgun, producing the Nelspot 707 as a result.
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
There has been some bigger calibers too. There was that .70 format. Lazerball? I don't remember.....
Lazerball was originally .80 cal.

Here pictured next to some slightly swollen Marbelizer (all I had in the closet at the time).

Of course they're not a "paint" ball, they're a soft nerf like foam. And as far as I know there was only one type of gun made to shoot them, the .80 cal Stingray.

And I have two of them.
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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the original size was .69 caliber, but due to too much giggling, the caliber was reduced to .68
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:35 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
All the later.
With both the 3357, and SMG-60, the smaller caliber was used specifically due to limits of the valve. The Mod85 was limited due to the case size. The .62 caliber stuck around for a little while in pumps since it was common to allow guns to run 350fps using smaller calibers.

The 3357, Mod85 and early .43 Qui Wein guns were not designed to play paintball, but instead target practice, and LEO training. For the longest time, the oddball calibers were just novelties, but lots of fields now offer "low impact paintball" using .50 guns. Seems a good way to introduce new players.

There has been some bigger calibers too. There was that .70 format. Lazerball? I don't remember. Plus the notorious .75 from Bob Long. In the early 90s. Bob Long noticed that tournament rules originally did not specify a caliber since... well, only .68 was around (and smaller). So, he had Bullseye secretly make some .75, to use in custom guns.

Running 300fps, the .75 paint gave him a huge range advantage for woodsball. Ironman did this for some time before the secret got out, and tournaments had to restrict caliber sizes. Insurance companies (ie APL) also stepped in.

This is what basically killed any caliber other then .68 because when SP tried to push .50, they ran into insurance problems that now restrict all calibers to 300. They needed .50 to run at 400 to be competative, but APL absolutely refused... so, basically killing .50 as a "high end" alternative.

Anyway, for the original question- It was a common encapsulation die size. Nelson contracted Crosman who determined that .68 was the largest die size that they could get to reliably fire from an airgun, producing the Nelspot 707 as a result.
I remember early debates and statements that some projectile calibers (IIRC it was .62) would fly better than .68 This leads me to my next point in regards to Bob Long's projectiles: That was certainly his motive but, I've found that unless you increase the effective density of the projectile, a larger caliber fired at the same speed will simply slow down quicker. I modeled this out in my early ballistics studies. Now, did he do that? I've no clue. I know Tom Kaye looked into it (but did not execute) at one point for regular .68 but decided it would be difficult to manufacture.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
...I've found that unless you increase the effective density of the projectile, a larger caliber fired at the same speed will simply slow down quicker. I modeled this out in my early ballistics studies. Now, did he do that? I've no clue.
It seems likely, though perhaps not intentionally. Paintball fill seems to have a higher density than the shell. Surface area to volume ratio decreases exponentially as sphere diameter increases. Assuming the shell thickness remained constant from .68 to .75, the effective density of the projectile would increase as well.

That said, it's much more apparent that they wouldn't have continued to use them if they didn't work...
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uv_halo View Post
That was certainly his motive but, I've found that unless you increase the effective density of the projectile, a larger caliber fired at the same speed will simply slow down quicker.
It might not be greater maximum range, but greater effective range. The problem with the smaller calibers (ie .43 - .62) was they seemed to have worse accuracy. More curves, more corkscrews.

There were lots of theories back in the day, but the general consensus was things like the seam, barrel friction cause instability in the trajectory, but the mass of the paintball offsets that. So, on that theory, a larger .75 paintball should be more accurate. Perhaps much more.

But who knows. It might have also been just a placebo effect. Paintball has had many, many placebo-type tricks. Ie closed-bolt guns, low-pressure systems, venturi bolts, barrel rifling, etc. There is also something that people swear up and down to have an effect, but its just a placebo.

Or... could also be just that bob long wanted more splatter. So much so that it would more likely be counted as hits?
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