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Old 03-13-2009, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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For those knowledgeable of electronics, boards, etc

First of all, how come i do not see capacitors on electropneumatic gun boards? When I look at an electronic sear tripper board, there is this gigantor capacitor, and none on electropneumatic ones.

Second, do ebladed autockers use a solenoid to trip a sear, in addition to the solenoid they use as a 3-way? If not, how do they trip the sear?

Third, how identical would an autococker e-frame board to a spyder e-frame board? Do they both use identical capacitors?

Pertaining to the above questions, would it be possible to attach a 3-way cocker solenoid (or whatever they are called) to a spyder board? It is a VS1, it that helps. The capacitor is rated to 16 volts and 6800 microFarads. Will I have to change or remove that capacitor?

And, if any of you feel like being really helpful today, may you please post or find a picture of the guts of an electronic cocker frame and explain how it works, please?

I have a little project up my sleeve.... Just have to find the answers to these questions, first.

I may have more questions, just letting you know ahead of time.
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aheg1220 View Post
First of all, how come i do not see capacitors on electropneumatic gun boards? When I look at an electronic sear tripper board, there is this gigantor capacitor, and none on electropneumatic ones..
You only need a solenoid if the instantaneous current draw of the solenoid is greater than what the battery can supply. Pneumatic solenoids are generally air piloted and require very little juice to operate. Sear tripper solenoids are just a big *** coil and suck power in a big way. They need the capacitor to supply the starting power to move the solenoid.

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Second, do ebladed autockers use a solenoid to trip a sear, in addition to the solenoid they use as a 3-way? If not, how do they trip the sear?.
They have a sear tripper pancake/clapper solenoid in the grip to trip the sear

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Third, how identical would an autococker e-frame board to a spyder e-frame board? Do they both use identical capacitors?.
It depends on the draw of the solenoid. Different solenoids generally mean different capacitors

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Originally Posted by aheg1220 View Post
Pertaining to the above questions, would it be possible to attach a 3-way cocker solenoid (or whatever they are called) to a spyder board? It is a VS1, it that helps. The capacitor is rated to 16 volts and 6800 microFarads. Will I have to change or remove that capacitor? .
You might need to reduce the voltage coming from the board, it depends on the solenoid operating voltage. I don't know what they normally run at. Likely it would not need the capacitor at all.

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And, if any of you feel like being really helpful today, may you please post or find a picture of the guts of an electronic cocker frame and explain how it works, please?

I have a little project up my sleeve.... Just have to find the answers to these questions, first.

I may have more questions, just letting you know ahead of time.
You may want to look into a FASOR grip or Ion grop instead. The sear tripper solendoid is replaced by a solenoid and 3 way combo that does the same job. Only provides single acting air though ( you need to spring return any cylinders you use)

There isn't much to them. The round thing in the top of the frame is the pancake solenoid that trips the sear. The cover where the 3 way normally sits is a cover over a 3 way electro pneumatic solenoid. The board takes car of the timing.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow, dukie! Thanks!

To clear things up and reduce possible confusion, I am basically going to build an timmy/cocker/spyder hybrid child.

Because of the timmy part, no pancake noid is needed (correct?). All I would to do is attach the cocker 3-way soleniod to a spyder board. Is it even possible, though, to do that?

If it is possible, from what you said , dukie, then the capacitor would be a hinderance or even detrimental to the operation/effictiveness. So would I remove it or keep it?

I am not doing a FASOR or ion grip because of the expense. Buying a whole new grip frame and its guts and worrying about how to putt it on my spyder would alot more expensive than my idea.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Depending on what you want to do it's maybe not that simple. If you wanted to use a Spyder E-grip on a cocker I doubt you could do it w/o some serious modification of the board. It would probably be easier to buy a new board.
The Spyder board just trips the sear w/each trigger pull, sure there are burst modes and full auto modes and some have eyes but basically it's pull the trigger - give current to the solenoid for x (non-adjustable) milliseconds.
A 'cocker board has to control the sear solenoid and the 3 way solenoid and have adjustable timing settings for both.

If you explain what you want to do someone may be able to suggest a board to you.

Edit - you posted while I did.
So basically you want to build a closed-bolt Timmy?
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Last edited by Surestick; 03-13-2009 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just a heads up there are some non-sear tripping markers that use solenoided boards. Dangerous Power markers use single acting solenoids with very small coils so they need a little more power to hit them hard enough to close or open the seal. I'm actually a fan of the super-small cap driven solenoids because it saves a lot of space and makes for a tighter profiled marker.

Also some of the cheaper 'Fasor' markers, (Like a timmy/ego style marker, but with a spring return hammer instead of air return) use pancake solenoids that push a pneumatic 2-way valve and those use capacitors as well.

Ions also use capacitors on their boards, their solenoid coil isn't very small, but it is very underwound so it doesn't deprogram it's board with the EM field it generates.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aheg1220 View Post
Wow, dukie! Thanks!

To clear things up and reduce possible confusion, I am basically going to build an timmy/cocker/spyder hybrid child.

Because of the timmy part, no pancake noid is needed (correct?). All I would to do is attach the cocker 3-way soleniod to a spyder board. Is it even possible, though, to do that?

If it is possible, from what you said , dukie, then the capacitor would be a hinderance or even detrimental to the operation/effictiveness. So would I remove it or keep it?

I am not doing a FASOR or ion grip because of the expense. Buying a whole new grip frame and its guts and worrying about how to putt it on my spyder would alot more expensive than my idea.

You could just take the cocker 4-way, make an adapter for the spyder solenoid and screw it on there. cheap and chearful.... you just need enough throw to properly activate the 3 way. you would sort of need to file to fit the shaft, and spring return it but it will work jsut fine. Just an idea

Damn this board gets hit by the google web spyders a lot. I did a search on this subject and got a hit for my own response!
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks guys!

Dukie: Would you mind clarifying, please? I am not sure I fully understand your idea.

Surestick: My project isn't that complex; I won't be using a cocker frame on a spyder, or making a closed bolt timmy. Just an electropnuematic spyder using cocker and timmy parts. A trilogy threaded LPR, a cocker 4-way solenoid, and the timmy ram assembly. Cuts about $150 off the overall price tag, and I think it would make it much more novel.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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An electropneumatic solenoid is simply a solenoid and an air valve. Take the solenoid you have ( and that you know works with the board) and connect it to the standard mechanical cocker 4 way. Unless you already have the ep cocker noid, then just use that.
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