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Old 12-02-2017, 02:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Pop my cherry.

Alright so the holidays are upon us and my wife is bugging me asking me what to get. So I'm going to build an autocker from the ground up. I started a thread a little back saying I was new to cockers and I was just going to buy one in working order so I didn't have to mess with it, but if I don't have to mess with it I won't know how to fix it.

Anyways, I have never owned one but always wanted too (or two, either word would work well in this case). I decided I would like to build from the ground up that way I can get exactly what I want for parts and save some money. However there are some things that I don't understand.

What is the differences in bodies? Like I hear some say inception or Merlin bodies take a different valve, 11/16ths?. What is the regular size for regular bodies? How do I know what size valve the body takes if it's an old body. What are the performance differences between the valve sizes?

What are some brands to avoid as for bodies. I have read some post here where people allude to system x not being good. Is this true? Are there others that should be avoided.

I do want a full body. I want the full cocker experience including the back block slapping me in the face till I learn to not be stupid. Also I want a slider frame. What does "fbm" or "evo spec" mean? I'm sure there's other terms I have no clue what they mean.

Thanks for any help and I know this is long but I want you to pop my cocker cherry. Let's see, any more innuendos I can fit in her(e), umm PEN15. There that's the last one.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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So as far as valves go, most bodies unless othwise stated are a standard 'cocker valve. They're relatively simple and easy to find, but you need a specialized tool to install/uninstall. The tool itself is also relatively easy to find, it's just one more piece of gear you need. Advantages and disadvantages of the valves are pretty neglegable. Most will argue you can run at a lower pressure on a 11/16 valve, but when the 2k standard valve (pre2k bodies have smaller valve chambers, so they run a little higher. A high flow valve is beneficial in these bodies) runs in the 300psi range, you're just 'male organ' measuring at that point.

The only non WGP bodies I'd be weary of are the PsychoBallistics and Odyssey ones. PB uses less than stellar aluminum, their pneumatics are shotty at best, some bodies had the internals crossthreaded out of the box, and they don't use standard thread sizes for frame screws ect. As a cheap project body, theyre great.. just not mich after that. Odyssey bodies are basically proprietary. They use an uncommon frontblock thread, so pump kits and the like are not available.

Personally I've always liked System X. They get a bad rap, but I can't really figure out why. Their bodies have some nice features that only the very top 'cocker bodies had, like threaded feed necks. The frame they put on the Vengeance 2.0 is arguably one of the best mech hinge frames out there.. anyway..

FBM = Fire Ball Mountain. They produced some really cool bodies back in the day. The Apache body is on my want list..

Evo length refers to bolt length. This is also the same as "P Block" length. They're shorter length bolts because of the related back block. Pre2k bolts have a longer distance between the bolt pin center and the valve exhaust port center. 2ks are shorter than pre2k, and Evo is shorter still. Most likely you'll be dealing with a 2k length bolt.

I.. I think that's it for now..
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Get bodies that have nice window cuts like these:

The bolt length on that one however is not what you're looking for, I think that is Evo length (also known as P-block bolt)







All these have what I call "window cuts" that go right through the body, shaving the weight off them drastically

Nice shotgun slots under the dovetail rails on the last two pics, too
I like dovetails because you can put an Armson dot on them

You can almost make a Sniper II as light as a Phantom if you get nice lightweight bodies and a delrin bolt

Get clamping feednecks because regular circular ones like on the Trilogy or plain 2K vert feeds are dumb and require electrical tape to hold the hopper on -- soo dumb
The last two pics don't have clamping feeds

Clamping feeds are a must-have for my next Sniper / Autococker body

For stylistic purposes/points I'd avoid bodies drilled for eyes
Unless you want that

Others are going to chime in on what else is good but this is all I can think of as a pump player sharing only what I know on the subject

You aren't going to save money building up but it is a worthwhile project
I would buy parts cockers off of Ebay that are non-working and cobble something together you want from the parts you like from them, that way you can choose the best from each, have parts kits, and have donor parts set aside

YOU'LL NEED A RUSTY OLD AUTOCOCKER VALVE TOOL
that is a good piece to have


as well as a vert ASA screw remover wrench (mine was starry-shaped screw top!)
a wrench that can remove this:

Last edited by Pittsburgh Stinkbugs; 12-02-2017 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ok so I'm looking at a superstock body. That looks like it has the same kind of back block as the above mentioned p block, it does look like a "p" and I'm assuming that's the reason for calling it that right? So that would be an evo length, yes?

I'm also looking at an orracle body and I'm assuming that would be a standard 2k+ length yes? See I can learn fast.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Is it the swoopy Batman-looking one without the 3/8ths rail or the one with a curved-milled rail

Yea the swoopy one (my favorite )

Yes that's the evo-length bolt
and if its a delrin bolt you're going to love its light-weight

I think paintballgateway sells cosmetic eye-patches if you're running it mechanical

If you run it all-black it scares everyone, its so gnarly and evil-looking in person
I scared countless kids (teens I mean) and newbs with an all-black pump Superstock body Sniper II and all-black outfit, bunkering and surrendering folk



I changed the innards and with less volume to run CO2, gets 200 shots per 3.5 oz tank

Last edited by Pittsburgh Stinkbugs; 12-02-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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With the Orracle I want to say Yes, 2K+ standard length
Make sure it is a delrin bolt so that its smooth and light to use! I feel like I've stressed that enough already but just to make sure
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Also, make sure the Orracle is a full body. They did make some mini bodies (where the lower tube is cut flush with the barrel threads). The mini takes a different 3/4 way timing rod, and a completely different front block.

The 2k5 pro/Superstock bodies were among my favorites. My 'go-to Sniper is built off a 2k5.
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok I did already knowcthe differences between mini and regular orracle, but now I think I do want to get the superstock.

At Pittsburgh, it is the swwopy one. At least that's what I would call it. And the picture isn't working for me, it says error 403 forbidden when I click on it, I'm using my phone

Also this would be a normal 9/16ths valve right?

Last edited by Random Name; 12-02-2017 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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EDIT fixed


Yup the only difference between the Superstock that you're looking at and 2K Cocker bodies is the P backblock and the Evo-length bolt, it takes the same everything else I think (unless the Vertical ASA has some special shape to it possibly) including the standard valves. I don't have experience with Merlin valves, are they Trilogy valves? I should have saved the parts from my throwaway Trilogy if they had some value to someone.

Last edited by Pittsburgh Stinkbugs; 12-02-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You can use Merlin spec valves in Trilogies, yes.

The 2005 Prostock/Superstock is a great way to go for a first cocker. They're stylish and have great parts from the factory. They even have a threaded feedneck, which a majority of cockers don't have. Just be careful which one you buy; the Prostock is mech, the Superstock is electronic. If you're looking for a mech, the prostock would be a better option, because the Superstock bodies have a channel milled into the side for the eye cover. Looks unsightly on a mech.

They do use 9//16inch valves, btw.
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